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re: The purse for Chris Olave
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:30 am to Spelt it rong
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:30 am to Spelt it rong
quote:
eah but we got Penning also. We only had #18 to begin with and traded away that haul for 2 firsts... I'm saying the whole trade has to be considered and Penning is part of that trade now too.
Without the trade to the Eagles, the Saints were still going to pick one player in the First Round. Whether that was made at 18 as opposed to 19 is more or less immaterial. The trade with the Eagles was to get the 2nd first round...which, via a second trade, the Saints ultimately made at 11 as opposed to 16. They kept their "original" first round pick.
0
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:33 am to Mister Flawless
quote:
Still not an entire draft plus. Again, here's the compensation Ditka gave up for one player:
1999 1st
1999 3rd
1999 4th
1999 5th
1999 6th
1999 7th
2000 1st
2000 3rd
I mean I can include the 1st rd pick swap from the current draft in the OP, too, if we want to do that.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's still capital.
Because it's not valued as much as a standard 3rd. It's important to highlight that.
quote:
Which one?
The 1st was used to draft him. I understand that he is wanting to use that in his "purse". But if you are going to use that to compare it to Ricky, you would have to list 2 first for Ricky.
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 11:39 am
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:36 am to Lester Earl
quote:
2023 1st
2024 2nd
2022 3rd
2022 3rd
2022 4th
This guy better be a multiple time all pro.
Buying the #11 pick costs a lot. I'm not sure we overpaid. If we did, maybe by an extra 3rd or so. It's reasonably close.
Now, whether Olave was worthy of that #11 pick is a different issue. I think people are conflating the two issues...what it took to buy the 11 pick vs. Olave.
I've said multiple times on here, that I much preferred Jameson Williams. If we look back wishing we had drafted Williams over Olave, that should be the story...not that we spent too much to get the pick.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:36 am to SlowFlowPro
The first doesn’t matter bc it was a swap but he has to add it to truly represent the cost bc it was part of the trade. What will matter is how we perform next year and where that pick is located. I have no problems with the 3rds and 4ths. All in all you are also protect the value of the pick by moving up to 11. Olave fills a need and hopefully will be a big part of insuring that our first next year is a late pick
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:36 am to Lester Earl
quote:
I mean I can include the 1st rd pick swap from the current draft in the OP, too, if we want to do that.
The purse for Ricky wasn't as bad as what the shock and awe media take took it as. We even got a 1st plus back when traded him or whatever it was.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:37 am to Lester Earl
quote:
I mean I can include the 1st rd pick swap from the current draft in the OP, too, if we want to do that.
I don't understand. When was an extra 1st given up for Olave?
I thought both trades just ended up being swaps of first?
Saints ended up with two first.
They just lost their 2023 1st while picking up one this year.
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 11:40 am
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:40 am to Mister Flawless
quote:
Still not an entire draft plus. Again, here's the compensation Ditka gave up for one player:
1999 1st
1999 3rd
1999 4th
1999 5th
1999 6th
1999 7th
2000 1st
2000 3rd
The Ricky Williams trade has only one comparison, that being the Hershel Walker trade.
And after 3 years and 3000 yards with New Orleans, the Saints got two 1sts and a 4th back for him. Everyone always forgets this.
Here is the Walker trade:
quote:
Vikings received:
RB Herschel Walker
Dallas’ 1990 third round pick
Dallas’ 1990 10th round pick
San Diego’s 1990 5th round pick
Dallas’ 1991 3rd round pick
Cowboys received:
LB Jesse Solomon
LB David Howard
CB Issiac Holt
RB Darrin Nelson (traded to SD)
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota’s 1990 first, second and sixth round picks
Minnesota’s 1991 first and second round picks
Minnesota’s 1992 first, second and third round picks
What made the Walker trade so one sided was the Cowboys nailed the draft picks for the most part.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:41 am to TigerDeacon
quote:
So we paid a 2024 second, two 2022 thirds and a 2022 4th to move our first round pick from 2023 to 2022 and to move up in the draft to get a WR that the Saints felt matched what they needed. I assume the Saints are expecting to have a pick in the second half of the 2023 draft so you also have to consider that and we also got a 2022 6th round back.
This is the right way of looking at it.
We swapped our 2023 first for #11. Obviously, #11 is worth more.
What was that cost?
quote:
2024 2nd
2022 3rd
2022 3rd
2022 4th
a 2, 3, and a 4 seems reasonable to me. The extra #3, may be a premium. Someone who has the value charts can see if I'm right. I'm just going by my gut.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:42 am to Lester Earl
Better be a bonifide starter day one with great production.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:42 am to moneyg
quote:
The extra #3, may be a premium. Someone who has the value charts can see if I'm right. I'm just going by my gut.
Yes. And when using the chart it is the actual draft slot and not the round that matters. Both of those 3rds are in the compensatory slots. So it ended up needing more to sweeten it.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:44 am to moneyg
quote:
If we look back wishing we had drafted Williams over Olave, that should be the story
I think it was the Saints trying to win now not rebuild. If in rebuilding mode then Williams might have been the pick.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:45 am to Lester Earl
quote:
We call this mental gymnastics
You could say that about all of this.
We invested a lot of draft capital in Olave. If he produces in his first two-three years, similar to Thomas... it will be worth it.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:46 am to Lester Earl
I know people will get excited about players going into and during the draft but 2022 was a down year for talent. There probably was not a whole lot of difference between 3rd and 5th round grades so the 2022 3rd and 4th round picks were worth giving up to get the additional 1st round pick and then to move up from 16 to 11.
On paper it appears heavy but really the talent wasn't there after the 1st round to be meaningful to lose those picks.
On paper it appears heavy but really the talent wasn't there after the 1st round to be meaningful to lose those picks.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:47 am to Lester Earl
quote:
2022 3rd
2022 3rd
2022 4th
'
When you have a deep roster, these selections mean very little, you basically have to take someone that you know will replace a current known asset.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:50 am to TigerDeacon
quote:
And after 3 years and 3000 yards with New Orleans, the Saints got two 1sts and a 4th back for him. Everyone always forgets this.
Yes we got a return for him, but this is not really relevant. The comparison is the initial trade for Ricky vs. the trades for Olave. Overall it’s not a horrible compensation to get 11. Instead it’s the argument as to whether Olave justifies the trade.
The Ricky trade and the Hershel Walker trades were arguably flops for both the Saints and Vikings as the expectations were not met. Not to say Ricky wasn’t productive but you cannot say he was worth selecting at 5 for everything you gave up.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:50 am to moneyg
another way to look at it we bought the #11 and 194th pick in 2022. We didn't "move up" when it was all said and done we paid for two picks we didn't have it cost this
2023 1st (Position unknown)
2024 2nd (Position unknown)
2022 3rd (comp)
2022 3rd (comp)
2022 4th
2022 7th
2022 move back one spot from 18 to 19
To outright buy the 11th and the 194th (6th round pick) in 2022. Is it a high price to pay. maybe time will tell but you use the draft value chart it comes out as an even trade. Speculation about the player or player we got vs would have gotten is immaterial
2023 1st (Position unknown)
2024 2nd (Position unknown)
2022 3rd (comp)
2022 3rd (comp)
2022 4th
2022 7th
2022 move back one spot from 18 to 19
To outright buy the 11th and the 194th (6th round pick) in 2022. Is it a high price to pay. maybe time will tell but you use the draft value chart it comes out as an even trade. Speculation about the player or player we got vs would have gotten is immaterial
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:51 am to Mystery
quote:
Because it's not valued as much as a standard 3rd.
That's silly
quote:
The 1st was used to draft him.
quote:
2023 1st
2024 2nd
2022 3rd
2022 3rd
2022 4th
Where is that listed?
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:51 am to ODP
The Saints roster is not that deep. They lack bonafide starters & 2nd team players at multiple positions
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:53 am to Mpd31
quote:
What will matter is how we perform next year and where that pick is located.
Results-oriented thinking.
Going all-in preflop with 7-2 for 100 BBs when your opponent shows strength is a bad move no matter if you win the hand or not.
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