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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:41 pm to VolSquatch
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:41 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
If a NATO member is attacked, pulling us into it? Yes. If it ended today, or ended in the future without us getting pulled into it, the outcome will not impact us.
Keep proving my point for me.
quote:
So its apparently not in writing, but we definitely made a promise.
Apparently we made an offer during negotiations. Obviously the negotiations didn’t end in this being part of a formal agreement, or it would have been in writing.
In my business I negotiate all the time, offers are made, counter offers are made, and often these offers never get accepted. If they are a contract or agreement is put in writing. That’s how these things work,
We know that, and Russia knows that.
2
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:44 pm to CitizenK
quote:
The redlines to use nukes have been crossed several times. Putin knows that Russia would be destroyed and we won't even need nukes to do so
Do you remember in the first weeks when this invasion really ramped up, and Putin and the top brass all seemed to disappear for a bit... and there were lots of news stories about how they were hiding in underground vaults in the Ural mountains located at certain coordinates, however many miles down...
Supposedly that was The Pentagon/NATO letting them know "we know exactly where you are and will concentrate our nukes to get through to you, whatever it takes. So don't get any ideas."
News.com.au: "Putin is hiding in a secret underground nuclear bunker"
This post was edited on 5/7/24 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:46 pm to doubleb
quote:
Keep proving my point for me.
Its literally not
quote:
Apparently we made an offer during negotiations. Obviously the negotiations didn’t end in this being part of a formal agreement, or it would have been in writing.
You think the US would have put that in writing even if they promised it? The USSR at the time didn't have the capital to demand anything in writing
If you're in business you've surely made at least a couple of handshake deals. Either way, we have real people in power in Russia who are operating as if that stipulation was guaranteed by the US.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:54 pm to doubleb
Putin does not even honor written contracts made by previous Russian leaders. "That wasn't me." Hence his invasion of Ukraine despite the agreement when they transferred their nukes to Russia.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:56 pm to ElChupacabra
You can't go against tNarrative.
tNarrative is all, it determines all.
We are but tiny gears meant to drive the machine that is tNarrative
tNarrative is all, it determines all.
We are but tiny gears meant to drive the machine that is tNarrative
Posted on 5/7/24 at 1:58 pm to Lee B
Another thing I heard repeated a few times when people are asked "can Ukraine even drive Russia out of its territory?"
"Why drive them out when you could do other things to make it so they can't stay? Namely, cut off supply routes, and cut off electricity in winter, and wait. Do the same things Russia has tried to do Ukraine as a whole just in the occupied areas? You could do that with missile strikes, not ground assaults."
"Why drive them out when you could do other things to make it so they can't stay? Namely, cut off supply routes, and cut off electricity in winter, and wait. Do the same things Russia has tried to do Ukraine as a whole just in the occupied areas? You could do that with missile strikes, not ground assaults."
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:06 pm to No Colors
quote:
Yes. Because they frickING INVADED you twat.
We are being invaded right now by people who are nothing like us and the President of the US (who publicly swore an oath to defend our borders) scoffed at the idea of doing anything to stop it.
I don't get why we care about Russia reclaiming a Russian speaking part of Ukraine when the Ukrainiansn themselves are tired of fighting.
This post was edited on 5/7/24 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:09 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
"We must let Ukraine into NATO so that Russia won't invade, they would have never attacked a NATO country like that!"
"France and Poland must send troops to Ukraine, Russia is going to attack them next!"
The reason to put Ukraine in NATO is that they will make NATO much stronger, as they will have the greatest experience in actually fighting Russia, plus they will end this war with one of the largest and strongest militaries in Europe.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:14 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The reason to put Ukraine in NATO is that they will make NATO much stronger, as they will have the greatest experience in actually fighting Russia,
So we want them because they will have the most experience fighting Russia, when one of the main benefits of NATO in the first place is to avoid conflict with Russia?
That's a stretch. In the assets vs liabilities assessment of NATO, Ukraine would be firmly in the liabilities column.
NATO just makes an even firmer agreement that we will be subsidizing Ukraine's defence, like we are already doing anyway.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:16 pm to SirWinston
quote:
The United States is openly surrendering our borders to swarthy illegals who are nothing like us, yet you want hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to die for their border? Fighting people who are literally related to them? Who listen to the same music and worship in the same churches and who speak the same language?
All of you are pure evil.
You see, mate, most of think that racism is evil. We think that opposing people because their skin is swarthy is wrong.
And in reality, most immigrants from Central America are more similar to Americans that Europeans. For example, they are likely practicing Christians, either Catholic or Protestant, in contrast to the Europeans, who would likely be agnostic. The immigrants from Central America come from societies where people are expected to take care of themselves, while the Europeans want more socialism.
Any actual conservative actually wants us to take immigrants from Latin America -- we just need to control the borders and ensure a safe process. America needs immigrants to fuel our economy.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:20 pm to SirWinston
quote:
time to put America First, end this thread
You're welcome to do that
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:21 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
In the assets vs liabilities assessment of NATO, Ukraine would be firmly in the liabilities column.
NATO just makes an even firmer agreement that we will be subsidizing Ukraine's defence, like we are already doing anyway.
There's no way that you aren't smarter than this. Ukraine is completely full of NATO equipment. Countries such as Denmark gave Ukraine all their artillery. Ukraine's military will be one of the strongest in Europe.
There's simply no way that NATO could not take Ukraine at that point. Imagine that, in 10-15 years, Putin manages to get cronies in charge of Ukraine, as he just did in Georgia (which fought a war with Russia in 2008). Imagine that all those NATO weapons could actually be turned against NATO.
No, of course Ukraine will be in NATO. That's a fait accompli.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:22 pm to SirWinston
quote:
We are being invaded right now by people who are nothing like us and the President of the US (who publicly swore an oath to defend our borders) scoffed at the idea of doing anything to stop it.
I don't get why we care about Russia reclaiming a Russian speaking part of Ukraine when the Ukrainiansn themselves are tired of fighting.
It's time to put America First, end this thread, and put our efforts towards electing Donald Trump the 47th President.
So you will stop posting in this thread while you focus on getting Trump elected. Good.
I'll bet you $20 bucks you won't abandon this thread, hypocrite.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:37 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
There's no way that you aren't smarter than this. Ukraine is completely full of NATO equipment. Countries such as Denmark gave Ukraine all their artillery. Ukraine's military will be one of the strongest in Europe.
Because NATO inflated them to be that, they didn't make themselves that
There is nothing special about Ukraine. We could do the same thing to any country and that would be true. Whenever that equipment ages, that will no longer be the case. And thats IF the equipment isn't moved out en masse after whatever peace looks like when this is over, IF Ukraine's government as it exists today is in power, IF that equipment isn't largely destroyed. And that equipment has been sold as being our old leftover scraps in this thread on numerous occasions.
quote:
There's simply no way that NATO could not take Ukraine at that point
Sure there is.
quote:
Imagine that, in 10-15 years, Putin manages to get cronies in charge of Ukraine, as he just did in Georgia (which fought a war with Russia in 2008). Imagine that all those NATO weapons could actually be turned against NATO.
Then NATO didn't do a very good job of preventing war with Russia via all these defense pacts, now did it?
If you operate with the absolute assumption that Russia will one day be at war with NATO, your logic kind of tracks. Seems like an awful, illogical reality to live in.
quote:
No, of course Ukraine will be in NATO. That's a fait accompli.
The discourse around that has very much shifted of late, and even some of the most robotic of all Ukraine bots in this thread don't support that.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:38 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Any actual conservative actually wants us to take immigrants from Latin America -
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:39 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
You see, mate, most of think that racism is evil. We think that opposing people because their skin is swarthy is wrong.
FISACAL responsibility - why should we provide benefits to illegal immigrants. In my 9 years as an expat, host governments never gave benefits
Quality of immigrants - need prohibit know criminals from entry to America
Why liberals and RINOs alway go to the race card?
Posted on 5/7/24 at 2:54 pm to Chromdome35
I am going to post far less here as the election heats up
Posted on 5/7/24 at 3:05 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
You think the US would have put that in writing even if they promised it? The USSR at the time didn't have the capital to demand anything in writing If you're in business you've surely made at least a couple of handshake deals.
Either way, we have real people in power in Russia who are operating as if that stipulation was guaranteed by the US.
That is a lie perpetuated by far leftists like Mearsheimer and Sachs. Gorbie himself said that nothing was even said of this, except not to embarrass Russia by building any military bases in former East Germany.
Case Closed but you are so gullible.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 3:19 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Any actual conservative actually wants us to take immigrants from Latin America -
That was certainly the case before about 2008... Republicans welcomed competitive labor. Democrats on behalf of Labor Unions wanted closed borders.
I can remember when Lou Dobbs had a prime-time show on CNN yelling about immigrants taking away jobs, while George W. Bush was making a case that immigrants were great for America.
Posted on 5/7/24 at 3:22 pm to Lee B
quote:
I can remember when Lou Dobbs had a prime-time show on CNN yelling about immigrants taking away jobs, while George W. Bush was making a case that immigrants were great for America.
Its almost like people are reacting to around two decades worth of new information on the subject
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