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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:00 pm to TigerMan327
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:00 pm to TigerMan327
He has no clue.
It benefits the world with stability in that region.
quote:
Do you think a weaker Russia benefits the United States?
It benefits the world with stability in that region.
0
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:01 pm to dchog
That would be Putin, not Zelenskyy
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:03 pm to TigerMan327
quote:Putin/Russia doesn't have an endgame. It's an unending battle for global dominance. Accumulate resources and power, and destabilize those with more of either.
what do you think would be Russias end game?
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:04 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
The whole concept is the US is putting money instead of soldiers to help weaken Russia.
Yeah, and it’s not working.
quote:
What do you think would happen if we didn’t give money?
Same thing that is going to happen regardless: Ukraine falls.
quote:
Russia would take over all of Ukraine.
Which will happen.
quote:
Their army would grow as well as there power.
Why?
quote:
You assume they would stop at Ukraine? Eventually NATO will be pulled in and actually Americans would be called to a real war and would die and we would spend billions anyways.
Yes, we’ll address it when it happens, but it hasn’t yet. This is just what the warmongering pieces of shite like Lindsey Graham, Adam Kinzinger, and Liz Cheney say so dupes like you are fooled. Almost every war since WWII except for the War in Afghanistan was fought for bullshite and you’re just Charlie Brown going to kick that football hoping Lucy won’t pull it at the last minute.
quote:
Your mindset is so shortsighted.
You warmongering twats always say this shite. Not falling for it. Bet you supported the Invasion of Iraq too.
quote:
Real question. If USA never got involved and let Russia take Ukraine what do you think would be Russias end game?
Their endgame is to have their old empire back, but that goes into NATO. If a member of NATO is attacked then yeah it’s war, but I’m not putting up with this psychotic bullying to risk WWIII. Since WWII people like me have been on the right side of history. If you still buy this shite after everything Henry Kissinger lied about to get us into war, you’re an idiot.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:05 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Lol. As long as the USA is still good during your short lifetime who cares right? So shortsighted
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:07 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Hook, Line and Sinker. There are extremely gullible posters on here that think they know the reality of the world but are really sheep.
And there are posters here that believe they are shepherds and know it all when reality is they are so rigid in their thinking that they are close minded in their thinking and they have it all figured out.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:07 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
You can screech about the money that we are spending, but that still doesn't address the malleability of Russian security, which they will bend to justify anything.
Where do we get the balls to judge them for that? Have you seen how much this administration has lied?
quote:
If victory in Ukraine is assured, and there is nothing the US can do, the long-term calculus is going to be far more expensive than 57 billion.
Not if it ends there. And again, another elephant in the room is the fertilizer, the wheat, and the diesel we get from those countries. I think at this point if Russia took Ukraine tomorrow that more people’s lives would be saved instead of a continuation.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:09 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain; compensation for the economic value of the highly-enriched uranium in the warheads
This is Europes war, not Joe Bidens. That was 30 years ago.
Lol, didn’t I see the US right there?
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:10 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
Fact The United States fought the War of Tripoli because a hungover Navy captain ran his ship aground on a sandbar and told Washington that pirates attacked him.
Wow so the deep state bullied poor Muslim pirates into a war. We should have respected their cultural tradition of human trafficking. I’m so ashamed. Let me cancel my Fourth of July plans.
This post was edited on 7/1/22 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:10 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
As long as the USA is still good during your short lifetime who cares right? So shortsighted
We’re not good though. I’m the one having the long term vision here. What if this goes on for years and the supply crisis gets even worse? Still keep on sending bags of cash over there with no questions asked as Americans starve? You’re such a fricking sap.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:10 pm to OMLandshark
It is working. Russia is being delivered massive casualties and they are using all of their mechanical war power. They are being set back decades due to this “war”.
The entirety of Ukraine will not fall. Russia has literally said they don’t want all of Ukraine and have switched their “operation” to just the Donbas region.
If the USA never supplied intel and better weaponry and training ALL of Ukraine would have fallen already. This would mean less Russian soldiers lives taken and therefore more conscripts that would be forced to join the Russian army due to their new leadership (aka a bigger more powerful army).
You then even admit Russia/Putin would continue to try and bring back the old Soviet Union which would 100% lead to a world war and thousands of US soldiers killed and you say I’m the war monger? Your scenario will 100% lead to dead Americans.
How can you read your own response and think your opinion of letting Russia do what they want until NATO gets called into better than what’s happening right now?
The entirety of Ukraine will not fall. Russia has literally said they don’t want all of Ukraine and have switched their “operation” to just the Donbas region.
If the USA never supplied intel and better weaponry and training ALL of Ukraine would have fallen already. This would mean less Russian soldiers lives taken and therefore more conscripts that would be forced to join the Russian army due to their new leadership (aka a bigger more powerful army).
You then even admit Russia/Putin would continue to try and bring back the old Soviet Union which would 100% lead to a world war and thousands of US soldiers killed and you say I’m the war monger? Your scenario will 100% lead to dead Americans.
How can you read your own response and think your opinion of letting Russia do what they want until NATO gets called into better than what’s happening right now?
This post was edited on 7/1/22 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:13 pm to OMLandshark
quote:You implying that our politicians would instantly use that money to feed starving Americans is pretty funny. Most would complain of it being a hand out and be pissed off at that as well calling it socialism or whatever the buzzword of the day is
Still keep on sending bags of cash over there with no questions asked as Americans starve?
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:19 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
You are really gullible. You have zero clue about our own Government and CIA do you.
And you are completely ignorant about the relevant details, so much so that you actually don't care about what the US's initial response was to Eastern European nations joining NATO.
quote:
America is the greatest country in the history of this planet but our government has overthrown and undermined other countries for decades.
This is the reality of geopolitics since man discovered farming. The world is an anarchic, violent place and geopolitics is its most cutthroat arena. If we remove people's emotions about the US's behavior, it has done what security states do, which is to maximize its wealth and security at the expense of other weaker states. Why exactly should it act differently?
quote:
We pushed and pushed and pushed to get Putin to do something that makes him look like the aggressor.
Again, this is an ahistorical view. The notion that NATO has forced Putin to be the aggressor is just not accurate and is based on a nonsensical idea.
Putin spoke in 2007 about a key aspect of US-Russia relations, the ABM Treaty signed in 1972. GWBII insisted that the US leave that agreement on December 13th, 2001, because in his view, the security landscape had changed, and the 'hostility that once led both our countries to keep thousands of nuclear weapons on hair-trigger alert' died with the death of the USSR. Again, there might be a prevailing event that could color Bush's view at the time, right?
Putin was newly ascended to the Presidency of Russia, and saw the withdrawal as an overt threat, despite the US's own security concerns which drove the withdrawal. Arguably, there was no justification for seeing it as a threat other than paranoia. Why did he see the withdrawal of a 1970s treaty as a threat? Or rather, he saw Russian security concerns as paramount, whereas the US saw their own security concerns as paramount. Should the US have acted so that their security was secondary to Russia's? In other words, the suggestions here are that the US should have acted timidly with respect to their own security just for Russia's sake, which is a nonsensical view.
Onto the NATO expansion question, because the Visegrad states in Central Europe first expressed interest in joining NATO in October of 1991 after the termination of the Warsaw Pact earlier in the year, during the process of the dissolution of the USSR. Why is it that no one questions why those countries expressed an interest immediately after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact? The NATO response was guarded, but was pursued after Congress empowered Clinton in October of 1994. By the time of full ascension, Russian behavior internally with the Chechen War stirred up more interest in Eastern Europe for membership in NATO.
In the time between 1994 and 1999, NATO and Russia signed an agreement which promised that each would protect the territorial rights of sovereign nations. Indeed, any suggestion that the former Warsaw Pact states future security was dependent on how secure Russia felt would have only driven those states into NATO's arms even faster. Whatever hesitancy NATO showed has now been obliterated by this idea that NATO was specifically seeking to isolate Russia for the purpose of provoking Russia. It actually beggars belief and is a convenient post-hoc excuse to justify Russia's own paranoia.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:19 pm to RLDSC FAN
New U.S. Guided Rockets Strengthen Ukraine’s Hand Against Russia
SLOVYANKA, Ukraine—American-supplied high-tech rocket launchers have begun arriving on the front line in eastern Ukraine. Already they are shifting the balance of power in the fierce artillery duel being fought with Russian forces, Ukrainian officers say.
For more than a month, a Russian field headquarters not far from here was frustratingly beyond the range of Lt. Valentyn Koval’s Soviet-era artillery battery, he said. That changed last week, when Lt. Koval’s unit got a High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or Himars.
Under cover of darkness, his unit drove the truck-mounted rocket launcher into position, punched in coordinates and pressed the launch button. Six 200-pound rockets slammed into the Russian position, largely destroying it, said Lt. Koval, who commands two Himars batteries.
The Russian base was one of about 10 high-value positions Lt. Koval says Ukraine has hit in the two weeks since taking charge of the systems, the most sophisticated weaponry Washington has supplied to Ukraine since Russia invaded in February.
originally published by The Wall Street Journal
Yahoo news
SLOVYANKA, Ukraine—American-supplied high-tech rocket launchers have begun arriving on the front line in eastern Ukraine. Already they are shifting the balance of power in the fierce artillery duel being fought with Russian forces, Ukrainian officers say.
For more than a month, a Russian field headquarters not far from here was frustratingly beyond the range of Lt. Valentyn Koval’s Soviet-era artillery battery, he said. That changed last week, when Lt. Koval’s unit got a High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or Himars.
Under cover of darkness, his unit drove the truck-mounted rocket launcher into position, punched in coordinates and pressed the launch button. Six 200-pound rockets slammed into the Russian position, largely destroying it, said Lt. Koval, who commands two Himars batteries.
The Russian base was one of about 10 high-value positions Lt. Koval says Ukraine has hit in the two weeks since taking charge of the systems, the most sophisticated weaponry Washington has supplied to Ukraine since Russia invaded in February.
originally published by The Wall Street Journal
Yahoo news
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:20 pm to TigerMan327
quote:
It is working.
No it’s not. It will fail in the end.
quote:
Russia is being delivered massive casualties and they are using all of their mechanical war power.
You think Putin cares?
quote:
They are being set back decades due to this “war”.
Blatant lie. The ruble is stronger than ever and they’re seeing mass revenue as we speak.
quote:
The entirety of Ukraine will not fall. Russia has literally said they don’t want all of Ukraine and have switched their “operation” to just the Donbas region.
You really think Russia is telling the truth?
quote:
If the USA never supplied intel and better weaponry and training ALL of Ukraine would have fallen already. This would mean less Russian soldiers lives taken and therefore more conscripts that would be forced to join the Russian army due to their new leadership (aka a bigger more powerful army).
Going to happen regardless, John Bolton.
quote:
You then even admit Russia/Putin would continue to try and bring back the old Soviet Union which would 100% lead to a world war and thousands of US soldiers killed and you say I’m the war monger? Your sceneries will 100% lead to dead Americans.
I’m not biting. This is all you warmongers say. Meanwhile you don’t give two fricks what we ourselves are doing abroad in places like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, and Somalia. Save me the crocodile tears saying this saves Americans lives. I’ve given you a scenario that is very likely going to happen this year on the food shortages and how Russia wrapping this up quickly could save lives around the world. The one who is shortsighted.
quote:
How can you read your own response and think your opinion of letting Russia do what they want until NATO gets called into better than what’s happening right now?
Because I’ve lived and read a fricking history book. I’ve seen wartime propaganda, and this fricking it. When I was very much against the War in Iraq in high school, people in my own family insulted me saying I’m in the side of the terrorists, that I don’t care about Israel as a Jewish state and it needed to be defended, and I don’t care about innocent Iraqis under the cruel rule of Saddam. You know how many wars we’ve started for bullshite reasons? Sorry, not buying it.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:22 pm to Palantir
quote:
You implying that our politicians would instantly use that money to feed starving Americans is pretty funny. Most would complain of it being a hand out and be pissed off at that as well calling it socialism or whatever the buzzword of the day is
No, they’d use it to fatten their own checkbooks. Our government is filled with tons of evil people.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Where do we get the balls to judge them for that? Have you seen how much this administration has lied?
Do you think there exists a world where politicians are truthful with their own citizens and with each other?
quote:
Not if it ends there.
That's the problem. It won't end there. You are hoping it ends there, but if you are Russia, acting in the interest of your own security and have now seen the West capitulate once again after you annexed another country's territory, all justified by your imaginary security concerns, how are you going to act in the future? You seem to be giving the Russians every benefit of the doubt but going out of your way to inculcate the US in things which are effectively the rules of geopolitics.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:27 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you think there exists a world where politicians are truthful with their own citizens and with each other?
No, as Frank Reynolds once said “You have to be a real low life piece of shite to get involved in politics.
quote:
That's the problem. It won't end there.
How do you know?
quote:
You are hoping it ends there, but if you are Russia, acting in the interest of your own security and have now seen the West capitulate once again after you annexed another country's territory, all justified by your imaginary security concerns, how are you going to act in the future? You seem to be giving the Russians every benefit of the doubt but going out of your way to inculcate the US in things which are effectively the rules of geopolitics.
I’m just saying they understand the ramifications of nuclear war. No one wants one of those. If Putin attacks a NATO member, then we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
We’ve just been lied to about so many wars in the past justifying them for false reasons I just can’t trust them at all. They’re the boy who cried wolf. Maybe this time it is an actual wolf, but I’m not leaving the house to go check it out anymore.
This post was edited on 7/1/22 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:27 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
We’re not good though.
And Russia is? Come off it.
quote:
I’m the one having the long term vision here.
No, you are insisting on your point of view and aren't considering anything that might confound it.
quote:
What if this goes on for years and the supply crisis gets even worse?
What if this war ends and the supply crisis gets worse regardless, because Russia has discovered it can manipulate both wheat and oil in order to get what it wants? What then?
Posted on 7/1/22 at 4:32 pm to OMLandshark
The Putin bot Politards have taken over. Too bad.
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