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Parents of Michigan high school shooter Ethan Crumbley will go to trial, judges rule
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:19 pm
quote:
The parents of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley will stand trial for their alleged role in the attack, a three-judge panel with the Michigan Court of Appeals has ruled.
Jennifer and James Crumbley have pleaded not guilty to four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the Nov. 30, 2021 mass shooting at Oxford High School.
Their son, Ethan Crumbley, who was 15 at the time, allegedly used James Crumbley's semi-automatic handgun to kill four students and injure several others.
Jennifer and James Crumbley are accused of making the gun accessible and failing to recognize warning signs.
In a written opinion, Judge Christopher Murray said Jennifer and James Crumbley's "actions and inactions were inexorably intertwined with" their son's actions.
The parents "were actively involved" in their son's "mental state remaining untreated," Murray said. The parents also "provided him with the weapon he used to kill the victims" and "refused to remove him from the situation that led directly to the shootings," Murray wrote.
In a concurring opinion, Judge Michael Riordan wrote that although parents typically cannot be held liable for a child’s crime, Jennifer and James Crumbley were aware of “visual evidence…that [Ethan Crumbley] was contemplating the act of gunshot wounds being inflicted upon someone.”
Days before the shooting, a teacher allegedly saw Ethan Crumbley researching ammunition in class, and the school contacted his parents but they didn't respond, according to prosecutors. But Jennifer Crumbley did text her son, writing, "lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught," according to prosecutors.
Hours before the shooting, prosecutors said a teacher saw a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk that was "a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pointing at the words, 'The thoughts won't stop, help me.' In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet, 'Blood everywhere.'"
The Crumbleys were called to the school over the incident, and said they'd get their son counseling, but they did not take him home, prosecutors said.
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Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:20 pm to John88
That's a Crumbley situation for them.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:21 pm to John88
So do we then begin to round up every juvenile criminals parents and put them on trial for their inaction or accessory their children’s crimes?
Obviously not completely apples to apples but the basis is parents being held Responsible for the heinous actions of their offspring.
Obviously not completely apples to apples but the basis is parents being held Responsible for the heinous actions of their offspring.
This post was edited on 3/23/23 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:22 pm to John88
Are those the two who went on the run for a bit causing a manhunt?
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:22 pm to John88
i have 0 sympathy for the parents - they saw the warning signs, were told of what was going on at school and ignored it - bough the kid a gun anyway. whatever happens to them, they brought it on themselves.
I'm all for legal gun rights and the ability for folks to have all the guns they want, but if your kid has issues and you still supply them with a firearm - despite being shown the kid has some need for help, then you have a degree of culpability.
ill be downvoted to oblivion and that is fine.
I'm all for legal gun rights and the ability for folks to have all the guns they want, but if your kid has issues and you still supply them with a firearm - despite being shown the kid has some need for help, then you have a degree of culpability.
ill be downvoted to oblivion and that is fine.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:23 pm to John88
quote:
lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught," according to prosecutors.
Jesus. There are some really shitty parents out there.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:23 pm to Thracken13
quote:
i have 0 sympathy for the parents - they saw the warning signs, were told of what was going on at school and ignored it - bough the kid a gun anyway. whatever happens to them, they brought it on themselves.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:26 pm to Geauxld Finger
quote:
Obviously not completely apples to apples but the basis is parents being held Responsible for the heinous actions of their offspring.
This was over the top negligence imo so in this case I'm ok with it.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:32 pm to Thracken13
quote:
ill be downvoted to oblivion
Think you may be surprised. Many of us are fans of gun rights AND personal responsibility.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:33 pm to jrobic4
sometimes it is hard to tell how a reply will be received by the OT folks :)
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:35 pm to John88
I’m highschool, i knew where every gun was. I could get in the gun safe. I could access weapons easily.
That is not my parents fault. That’s called me being resourceful.
Why is it the parents fault exactly?
That is not my parents fault. That’s called me being resourceful.
Why is it the parents fault exactly?
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:38 pm to John88
quote:
Hours before the shooting, prosecutors said a teacher saw a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk that was "a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pointing at the words, 'The thoughts won't stop, help me.' In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet, 'Blood everywhere.'"
The Crumbleys were called to the school over the incident, and said they'd get their son counseling, but they did not take him home, prosecutors said
What did the school do when the parents refused to take him home?
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:39 pm to Fat and Happy
quote:
I could get in the gun safe. I could access weapons easily.
quote:
That is not my parents fault.
Well, you’re wrong here. So…
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:41 pm to jrobic4
quote:
Many of us are fans of gun rights AND personal responsibility.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:42 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
What did the school do when the parents refused to take him home?
Probably had to send him back to class.
Our district had a pretty strict policy in a case like that where the kid couldn’t return to school until he received a clear psych assessment. So the parent didn’t have a choice. I was surprised to learn a lot of districts don’t have that policy. If I remember correctly, this school/district didn’t at the time either.
This post was edited on 3/23/23 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:44 pm to Fat and Happy
because I'm willing to bet the issues that the child was exhibiting was more than just the day before the incident happened, and the parents disregarded it.
drawing pictures and writing about the voices and help me is not something that just starts the day before they act out violently. the fact they bought the kid a gun, despite the warning signs is 100% on them, and they should be held accountable.
adding - thx right here is why the parents should be held accountable iMHO
drawing pictures and writing about the voices and help me is not something that just starts the day before they act out violently. the fact they bought the kid a gun, despite the warning signs is 100% on them, and they should be held accountable.
quote:
Days before the shooting, a teacher allegedly saw Ethan Crumbley researching ammunition in class, and the school contacted his parents but they didn't respond, according to prosecutors. But Jennifer Crumbley did text her son, writing, "lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught," according to prosecutors.
Hours before the shooting, prosecutors said a teacher saw a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk that was "a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pointing at the words, 'The thoughts won't stop, help me.' In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet, 'Blood everywhere.'"
The Crumbleys were called to the school over the incident, and said they'd get their son counseling, but they did not take him home, prosecutors said.
adding - thx right here is why the parents should be held accountable iMHO
This post was edited on 3/23/23 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:44 pm to John88
quote:well thats unfortunate
But Jennifer Crumbley did text her son, writing, "lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught," according to prosecutors.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:46 pm to Fat and Happy
quote:
I’m highschool, i knew where every gun was. I could get in the gun safe. I could access weapons easily.
That is not my parents fault. That’s called me being resourceful.
Why is it the parents fault exactly?
When he exhibited some serious red flag behaviors, the parents refused to get him help. They refused to take him to a mental health facility.
And if I remember correctly, they also gifted him the gun that he used to kill his classmates. Knowing he was fantasizing about harming them.
That’s a big, big difference in your parents have guns in the house and you know how to access them without their knowledge.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:49 pm to Geauxld Finger
“ So do we then begin to round up every juvenile criminals parents and put them on trial for their inaction or accessory their children’s crimes”
Yes. This is the way.
Yes. This is the way.
Posted on 3/23/23 at 12:55 pm to Fat and Happy
quote:
I’m highschool, i knew where every gun was. I could get in the gun safe. I could access weapons easily.
That is not my parents fault. That’s called me being resourceful.
Why is it the parents fault exactly?
Lets see... did you have a fascination with torturing and beheading animals. Did you keep the heads in jar in your bedroom. Did you discuss hallucinations and fears of demons in your home? Did your teachers find your notebook fantasizing about killing people? Did you practice making molotov cocktails at home? During these events did your parents buy a you a handgun?
This wasn't simply the case of otherwise normal acting young man losing his shite one day and taking his fathers hand gun from the gun safe. To that point though, if you allow your minor children access to firearms you should damn well be aware of their mental state and take precautions if need be. These folks were over the top in their negligence and even appeared to be planning to go on the run after the incident.
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