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re: Why did O want to switch to a 4-3
Posted on 12/27/20 at 1:21 pm to OchoDedos
Posted on 12/27/20 at 1:21 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
4-3 is antiquated against modern offenses, and due to the physical nature of players required to effectively use a 4-3, it's difficult to recruit for. HS defenses have adapted to HS spread offenses. You don't find that many high schools playing 4-3 any more.
This is my personal feeling for college ball. There are still a number of NFL teams running a 4-3 because they still have to defend the run a lot and the defensive secondaries are elite compared to college teams even on the bad NFL teams.
Aranda liked to run 2 big DL, 6 LBs, 2 CB's, and one deep safety. He did this to put the fastest athletes on the field he could against spread teams. When we went against strong run teams then he would go traditional 3 big DL...
Look at the players we put on the field last season:
Chaison
Queen
Phillips
Divinity
Delpit
Vincent
Stingley
Stevens
Fulton
All these guys had great range and all but KF, KV, and Sting were some sort of hybrid LB in function.
This post was edited on 12/27/20 at 1:22 pm
1
Posted on 12/27/20 at 1:25 pm to GetmorewithLes
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/27/20 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 12/27/20 at 1:29 pm to lsu777
You don’t combat 4 wide sets with safeties.
There isn’t a defense out there who doesn’t use 3 CBS at least against 4 wide sets.
There isn’t a defense out there who doesn’t use 3 CBS at least against 4 wide sets.
Posted on 12/27/20 at 1:42 pm to OchoDedos
I am convinced that some people think the 3-4 was just invented in the last decade.
Majority of your snaps are run out of nickel in today’s college football so if you run a 4-3 that is a 4-2-5 with 3 cb’s and two safeties (base 4-2-5 is usually 3 safeties and 2 CB’s) and if you run a 3-4 that goes to a 3-3-5 with 3 CB’s and 2 safeties. On almost every single play you are rushing at least 4 towards the LOS and the offense knows who your base 4 rushers are now matter how many d linemen are on the field based on film study and tendencies.
Once you get to exotic blitzes and what not a 3 man front has advantages in being able to disguise blitzes, but a dominant 4 man d line that can get to the QB regularly without blitzing, which is what O wants, allows you to drop 7 in coverage and will lead to more TO’s.
Majority of your snaps are run out of nickel in today’s college football so if you run a 4-3 that is a 4-2-5 with 3 cb’s and two safeties (base 4-2-5 is usually 3 safeties and 2 CB’s) and if you run a 3-4 that goes to a 3-3-5 with 3 CB’s and 2 safeties. On almost every single play you are rushing at least 4 towards the LOS and the offense knows who your base 4 rushers are now matter how many d linemen are on the field based on film study and tendencies.
Once you get to exotic blitzes and what not a 3 man front has advantages in being able to disguise blitzes, but a dominant 4 man d line that can get to the QB regularly without blitzing, which is what O wants, allows you to drop 7 in coverage and will lead to more TO’s.
Posted on 12/27/20 at 3:55 pm to Fus0623
quote:
You have to understand playing defense in today’s college football has evolved immensely. You gonna give up yards and points, it something fans have to accept. It is about getting the stops and turnovers in the most opportune moments. LSU’s defense did that in spades last year
This year’s defense generated far more turnovers, especially turnovers for scores. We also created a lot more of a pass rush against all but Bama and maybe Auburn. The issue was Pelini’s unwillingness to adjust and scheme around our weaknesses. That lead to busts and big plays that often negated the impact of our own big plays.
With a better DC who can gameplan and make the right calls vs a spread attack, we should have a very good defense next year. The scheme and most of the players are there, including this recruiting class. We just need to plug a couple of holes and add better coaching and we should see a big improvement.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 7:58 am to ibleedprplngld
In today’s mobile quarterback spread offense works I would want as many fast versatile people on the field as I could, not fewer
Posted on 12/28/20 at 8:06 am to OchoDedos
quote:
4-3 is antiquated against modern offenses
are you assuming that they're staying with the 3-LB base with 3-5 WR sets or something?
how is a 4-man line "antiquated" when most teams end up that way for a majority of the time to combat spread teams? we had 4-men down all the time with Aranda, for instance.
quote:
and due to the physical nature of players required to effectively use a 4-3, it's difficult to recruit for.
what? going back to a 4-man base set is helping us recruit better DL
Posted on 12/28/20 at 8:10 am to geauxtigers33
quote:
so if you run a 4-3 that is a 4-2-5 with 3 cb’s and two safeties (base 4-2-5 is usually 3 safeties and 2 CB’s) and if you run a 3-4 that goes to a 3-3-5
most 3-man base Ds go to a 4-man DL in the nickel. it's not a 3-3-5. sometimes it's labeled as a 2-man front but that's just trying to be clever
base 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 are different than nickel looks from a 4-3/3-4
gap assignments matter a lot more than how you label your down lineman anyway. there are 2-gap 4-man base Ds and combination gap schemes (like the Tampa 2, which had a 2-gap DT typically over center to allow the star 3-tech to attack a single gap of his choice pretty freely)
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 8:27 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 8:25 am to alumni95
quote:
Vandy scored 38
Not on the defense. This is such a tired fricking argument. 14 of that was not scored on the defense and 7 of it was on backups.
quote:
Ole Miss scored 37
Worst game of Aranda's career, and after that game they lit it up and were unreal, including throughout the post-season.
quote:
Texas scored 38
Texas, before they had a crazy list of injuries, was a very good offense led by an experienced QB. And that was a high energy home game. Also, Delpit getting hurt really helped them.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:the vision laid out by O is not this
how is a 4-man line "antiquated" when most teams end up that way for a majority of the time to combat spread teams? we had 4-men down all the time with Aranda, for instance.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:17 am to CatfishJohn
LSU D played well first half vs ole miss. The D players admitted to relaxing after halftime with a huge lead.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:27 am to tigerfoot
quote:
the vision laid out by O is not this
you think O is dedicated to having 3 LBs out there in obvious passing situations or something?
I am not the biggest fan of O but a 4-man/1-gap DL line is not some terrible idea and most Ds end up that way against spread-passing anyway
what do you interpret O's vision to be, exactly?
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:10 am to SammyTiger
quote:
You don’t combat 4 wide sets with safeties.
There isn’t a defense out there who doesn’t use 3 CBS at least against 4 wide sets.
Maybe but that's not a 4-2-5, that's a nickel or dime package. Base 4-2-5 utilizes 3 safeties. Now you can work all kinds of things in, like replacing a LB with a safety, and the rover with a cb.
But base 4-2-5 is a sam and will linebackers, 4dl, a FS over the top, 2 CBs on the outside, a strong safety that plays down like a wide outside linebacker and a rover on the weak side.
Can pkay with it a hundred different ways though. Here is a good article that explains it.
LINK
Breakdown of gary Patterson's version
LINK
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 10:14 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:27 am to ibleedprplngld
You have to have great players to have a great defense, no matter the scheme. We just didn't have the Joes this year. Many were young and they will develop to be hosses.
But our outside ends/backers had unbelievable trouble setting the edge until the last 3 games. Then you could see it start to click. Also, gap integrity on the d-line was problematic.
And our linebackers. . . Geez. Can't remember an LSU LB crew struggling like this - ever. There were flashes of brilliance that were islands in a season of missed tackles, and being out of position. I think this group will show the most improvement in 2021.
All of the above are problematic, whether running a 3 or 4 man front. But with new recruits and another year of strength and practice, should be better.
But our outside ends/backers had unbelievable trouble setting the edge until the last 3 games. Then you could see it start to click. Also, gap integrity on the d-line was problematic.
And our linebackers. . . Geez. Can't remember an LSU LB crew struggling like this - ever. There were flashes of brilliance that were islands in a season of missed tackles, and being out of position. I think this group will show the most improvement in 2021.
All of the above are problematic, whether running a 3 or 4 man front. But with new recruits and another year of strength and practice, should be better.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:27 am to lsu777
With the safeties we are recruiting it sounds like this is what recruiting towards. Sage looks like he can be that Rover style of safety.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:37 am to PennyPacker
It's exactly what we are recruiting for and it's alot like what Aranda played many times with jacoby as fhe strong and Vincent as the rover, delpit at free.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:42 am to dcw7g
quote:
We mainly ran a 4-2-5
You almost have to run 5 men in the secondary now.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:43 am to lsu777
quote:
It's exactly what we are recruiting for and it's alot like what Aranda played many times with jacoby as fhe strong and Vincent as the rover, delpit at free.
Clemson runs a 4-3 and they have 3 safeties on the field all the time like we did last year
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:20 pm to lsu777
quote:
It's exactly what we are recruiting for and it's alot like what Aranda played many times with jacoby as fhe strong and Vincent as the rover, delpit at free.
it's also what Chavis ran with TM7 as the slot guy. why he made so many plays
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:21 pm to ibleedprplngld
He’s a DL guy. There’s no other reason than that...
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