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Miami - Perfect Example that Coaching Hires are Everything
Posted on 1/3/09 at 11:34 am
Posted on 1/3/09 at 11:34 am
They may never regain their stature.
If I were Miami alum, and I'm not, I would be pushing for scrapping the current staff and coaxing Jimmy Johnson out of retirement. He lives down there anyway.
If I were Miami alum, and I'm not, I would be pushing for scrapping the current staff and coaxing Jimmy Johnson out of retirement. He lives down there anyway.
6
Posted on 1/3/09 at 11:40 am to specs1
quote:
coaxing Jimmy Johnson out of retirement.
Maybe if they paid him $12 million a season would he even consider this, and even then I doubt it.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 12:03 pm to DanglingFury
don't think the U has the financial resources to pay 3m much less 10-12m. Long term I think they will struggle to reach their once lofty standards, especially now since UF is keeping all the in state talent and schools like LSU, OSU, USC are also poaching some talent. I think FSU will get back before they do. Also I just dont think Randy Shannon will cut it. I actually like the guy but he is just too conservative in play calling.
Since we are going head-to-head for a number of recruits, I am not complaining.
Since we are going head-to-head for a number of recruits, I am not complaining.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 12:06 pm to specs1
someone on the Rant was just saying that a few years ago Miami stopped giving exemptions to football players for the higher academic standards the rest of the students have to meet. I don't know about that, but if true, that more than anything is going to make it harder for Miami to regain elite status.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 12:13 pm to specs1
They need to go after Tubberville after the 2009 season.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 12:17 pm to specs1
quote:
They may never regain their stature.
They deserve it. They fired a coach was was 60-15. LSU can't blend two coaches to come up with 60-15. Heck, the best three years, each of Saban and Miles is 66-13. Had Saban returned for a 6th year and gone undefeated (presumably 13-0) he would have been 61-16. And Miami fired a coach who was 60-15.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 1:23 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
They need to go after Tubberville after the 2009 season.
I thought Tubbs was searcing for BTR real estate.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 1:25 pm to specs1
quote:
They need to go after Tubberville after the 2009 season.
I thought Tubbs was searcing for BTR real estate.
He was but Terry Saban bought up all available land on Highland Road. Tubberville got pissed because he doesn't want to live in Pollard or Tara so he is looking to Coral Gables instead.
Posted on 1/3/09 at 1:34 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
They deserve it. They fired a coach was was 60-15.
coker?
Posted on 1/3/09 at 1:39 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:And Smoke Laval brought LSU to the CWS twice.
They deserve it. They fired a coach was was 60-15. LSU can't blend two coaches to come up with 60-15.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 7:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
coker?
Maybe. Coaches "A" and "B" had their first season in 2001.
Coach "A" went, 12-0 (BCS Championship), 12-1, 11-2, 9-3, 9-3, 7-6, was 4-2 in Bowl games, and received final rankings, Coaches/AP of 1/1, 2/2, 5/5, 11/11, 18/17, and NR/NR. 60-15 overall and was fired.
Coach "B" went, 8-4, 13-1, 11-3, 10-2, 10-3, 9-4, was 4-2 in Bowl games, received final rankings of 25/22, 3/3, 6/7, 6/7, 10/10, NR/23. 60-17 overall, and is still employed. (He had seasons of 11-2 and 10-3 since).
Ignoring the years that Coach "B" got after Coach "A" was dismissed, who did a better job over the 6 years in question? Who accomplished more? Coach "B" is still waiting on his BCS championship.
This post was edited on 1/4/09 at 7:50 am
Posted on 1/4/09 at 10:21 am to Ace Midnight
Coach "B" is Richt?
Nevertheless, "B" is doing a better job. Coker was definitely trending downward. Proof of Miami's correctness in their decision was the poor performances since Coker left and the dearth of talent.
Nevertheless, "B" is doing a better job. Coker was definitely trending downward. Proof of Miami's correctness in their decision was the poor performances since Coker left and the dearth of talent.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 10:47 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
12-1, 11-2, 9-3, 9-3, 7-6
12, 11, 9, 9, 7...hmmm
major downward trend
Posted on 1/4/09 at 1:18 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
Proof of Miami's correctness in their decision was the poor performances since Coker left and the dearth of talent.
Nonsensical argument. That's like the people that say the Curley's losing was proof of how bad Archer was. Ridiculous.
Miami hasn't improved without Coker, so HE wasn't the problem. Either that, or Shannon wasn't the right replacement (and I thought it was a good move - I mean if they were going to be foolish enough to fire a 60-15 coach.....) Everyone suspects it's the change in the academics standards for athletes, and I tend to agree.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 3:39 pm to Ace Midnight
Well, if Coker really was a good coach, and the program was on solid footing when he was unjustifiably fired, the team would have kept on going - at least have been marginally successful.
But they weren't. They were bad. IMO, they would have been just as bad had Coker had stayed for one more year.
But they weren't. They were bad. IMO, they would have been just as bad had Coker had stayed for one more year.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 3:57 pm to specs1
Why would they fire Frank Haith?
Posted on 1/4/09 at 4:46 pm to Tiger Phil
I love this mode of thinking. Shannon is given a situation that is win-win. If he wins, it's that he's a great coach and was able to coach up the talent. If they fail, its all on Coker.
At some point, there are other circumstances at play. Maybe academic standards or maybe something else. Look at LSU under DiNardo. Solid for three years, then hires Tepper and they drop. The talent was obviously there as Saban won, but we all know Saban is a great coach. That doesn't mean you win without talent.
In the end, there was more wrong with Miami than Coker and Shannon really isn't a very good coach either.
At some point, there are other circumstances at play. Maybe academic standards or maybe something else. Look at LSU under DiNardo. Solid for three years, then hires Tepper and they drop. The talent was obviously there as Saban won, but we all know Saban is a great coach. That doesn't mean you win without talent.
In the end, there was more wrong with Miami than Coker and Shannon really isn't a very good coach either.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 4:56 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Nonsensical argument. That's like the people that say the Curley's losing was proof of how bad Archer was. Ridiculous.
Miami hasn't improved without Coker, so HE wasn't the problem. Either that, or Shannon wasn't the right replacement (and I thought it was a good move - I mean if they were going to be foolish enough to fire a 60-15 coach.....) Everyone suspects it's the change in the academics standards for athletes, and I tend to agree.
seriously dude, ask miami fans what they thought of coker and his recruiting. it was terrible. when coker took over miami, he had the best talent in the country, coker didnt keep this trend.
when shannon took over they were lucky to have top 25 talent. coker wasnt recruiting their base, the miami-dade county that well, which butch davis did really well. coker was trying to recruit nationally and he was missing on a lot of recruits. now shannon is kepping most, if not all, the players he wants in the miami-dade area. he is recruiting the southeast with a little emphasis on national recruiting.
Posted on 1/4/09 at 11:07 pm to specs1
quote:
Miami - Perfect Example that Coaching Hires are Everything
I know its easy for fans to believe this and that the solution is simple, fire the coach, but there is more to it than that. Bad coaching hires are often as much a symptom as the cause of a program's demise.
In the case of LSU in the late 80's and 90's, our facilities were apparently substandard, especially compared to programs like Florida State, Michigan and Notre Dame. From what I've read Miami's facilities have fallen off.
Another thing that plagued LSU in the past was the salary we were willing to pay. I know when Butch Davis left Miami he was underpaid compared to other top college coaches. I'm guessing they are still not willing to go out and pay the going rate based on their just promoting in house guy's like Coker and Shannon.
Posted on 1/5/09 at 12:45 am to Tiger Phil
quote:
Well, if Coker really was a good coach, and the program was on solid footing when he was unjustifiably fired, the team would have kept on going - at least have been marginally successful.
But they weren't. They were bad. IMO, they would have been just as bad had Coker had stayed for one more year.
And I respect that position, as long as it's purely instinctive, and not based on any sort of logic. Otherwise, there is no proof for you that Coker was good -
If Shannon had won a NC his first year (which Coker did, by the way) the anti-Coker crowd would say, "See, it was Coker." However, Shannon has struggled, and gone 7-5, twice. But that's Coker's fault as well? So, you see, there's no evidence, real or theoretical that I could produce for you that would demonstrate that Coker was a good coach, once he was fired. You've already made up your mind. I was willing to be open to a coaching change. It hasn't worked.
My original point was that objectively there was no discernible difference between the first 6 years of Richt versus Coker, except that Coker went to back-to-back BCS-CGs (winning the first) and Richt hasn't done that yet. Also, Richt peaked in his second year, not his first. That's not to say that Richt hasn't bumped back up for years 7 and 8, but I think it's a fair comparison.
Had Coker been brought back for year 7 and gone 7-5 again, I might be able to agree that he was the problem. He wasn't given that chance and now we'll never know.
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