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Message
re: Super League may NOT actually be happening!
Posted on 4/19/21 at 8:32 pm to BlackCoffeeKid
Posted on 4/19/21 at 8:32 pm to BlackCoffeeKid
Bamfordinho from 30 yards out
1
Posted on 4/19/21 at 8:49 pm to BlackCoffeeKid
Posted on 4/19/21 at 8:57 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Nah it’s the club and community mantra
So Gary is right
Liverpool claims to be a community club and spits in the fans face
Gary actually apologized for trashing that mantra today. What you said above is kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth a bit, bud, but that's neither here nor there. I actually have a shite ton of respect for Gary, especially after he had the balls to admit that was out of line and apologize.
Regardless, I am interested to see how this plays out. I don't see FIFA jumping in, but rather sitting on the fence and watching/waiting. I think that there may actually be a fan revolution that makes these clubs hurt hard.
LFC fans pulling banners of support out of the Kop for a fricking AWAY match is a big sign. The Super League won't work without fans, and they aren't taking any with them right now.
Unless they come out with some kind of better or equal deal to maintain the pyramid through their profits, I see no way forward for this in the long-term.
Edit: With that all said, I am scared that their market analysis was actually on point because of how worldwide these brands are, mainly because not everyone shares the same values regarding the game as the Europeans do.
This post was edited on 4/19/21 at 9:00 pm
Posted on 4/19/21 at 8:58 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Unless they come out with some kind of better or equal deal to maintain the pyramid through their profits, I see no way forward for this in the long-term.
They’re going to make some massive donation to their FAs
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:02 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Right, but is that a long-term thing or short? And how sustainable are their profit models?
None of this is actually known, and if those payments are long-term and the model is sustainable, what are the pros and cons to this versus UEFA for the 14 remaining PL clubs and the others left out?
None of this is actually known, and if those payments are long-term and the model is sustainable, what are the pros and cons to this versus UEFA for the 14 remaining PL clubs and the others left out?
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:18 pm to DByrd2
quote:
not everyone shares the same values regarding the game as the Europeans do.
Well, frick those people than.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:24 pm to SEC. 593
Can’t believe the two American owners killed European football just to appease their Chinese investors
This post was edited on 4/19/21 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 4/19/21 at 9:31 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Edit: With that all said, I am scared that their market analysis was actually on point because of how worldwide these brands are, mainly because not everyone shares the same values regarding the game as the Europeans do.
The sheer fact that people, on a message board dedicated to a university in Louisiana, have such strong opinions about what European clubs do, is an indication that their market research might be a bit misleading. They are trying to justify this by saying fans in the future just want to see the best teams play week in and week out, which implies that they don't want to follow a specific team. Yet the nature of entry to the sport is first through wide exposure, and then specific fandom. What do we tell virtually every person interested in the sport who starts a thread on this forum asking for advice on who to follow? Watch a lot of games, you'll discover the teams you like.
What they actually want is market capture for perpetuity, because they happen to own the market currently. The notion that American, Indian, and Chinese markets want the spectacle and not the fandom is plainly among the dumbest notions they could possibly put forth. It isn't true, in the slightest, because it isn't how humans work. Again, the fact of this very medium proves that they aren't correct.
This post was edited on 4/19/21 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:00 pm to crazy4lsu
I don't disagree with what you're asserting here at all.
What I am afraid of and poorly communicated is that the power of the dollar is more widespread than those European principles of giving back and trickling down and that this ESL will actually succeed.
I'm hopeful that franchising will not come and that one of two things happen:
1). News comes out about these clubs having done their homework and covered their bases to protect fans and the traditions of the FAs top to bottom
-or-
2). They haven't, and out of this negotiation tactic comes a compromise with UEFA.
What I am afraid of and poorly communicated is that the power of the dollar is more widespread than those European principles of giving back and trickling down and that this ESL will actually succeed.
I'm hopeful that franchising will not come and that one of two things happen:
1). News comes out about these clubs having done their homework and covered their bases to protect fans and the traditions of the FAs top to bottom
-or-
2). They haven't, and out of this negotiation tactic comes a compromise with UEFA.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:05 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
They are trying to justify this by saying fans in the future just want to see the best teams play week in and week out, which implies that they don't want to follow a specific team. Yet the nature of entry to the sport is first through wide exposure, and then specific fandom.
There is a large amount of folks who literally just latch on to some of these clubs for social stature and wear their gear around without actually giving a damn about soccer as a whole.
That is the part of the market model that scares me. I saw that COUNTLESS times in California, and have continued to see it in social circles where some folks watch and play, but the clingers don't and pretend they do with their money.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:17 pm to DByrd2
quote:
What I am afraid of and poorly communicated is that the power of the dollar is more widespread than those European principles of giving back and trickling down and that this ESL will actually succeed.
It might succeed, but they don't seem to understand their own product very well. Where do players come from? That's always been at the heart of the "trickle-down" model. Madrid and Barcelona have elite academies, but none of the rest are factories, with the exception of Man U, which isn't on the level of either of the Spanish giants. Given that the last decade, these clubs spent themselves in a tizzy, and collectively have reported 1.8 billion dollars in losses the past year, it is easy to understand why they are pushing it at this particular time. Given that, if you were on the other side, why would you negotiate? Or rather, what could you possibly give to these psychopaths that could actually make them, you know, not decide to spend 55 million dollars on a midget named Fred.
quote:
1). News comes out about these clubs having done their homework and covered their bases to protect fans and the traditions of the FAs top to bottom
This doesn't seem to be the case. Perez already lied in an interview where he said that Bayern, PSG and Dortmund were not invited, as Der Spiegel, I believe, has already produced proof that all three were formally invited. They certainly didn't predict the Prime Minister, Parliament, and the Prince of Wales all releasing statements coming out against this. The degree of government statements coming out against this is surprising, as I don't think they thought that they would have to deal with UEFA, FIFA, each individual FA and the respective governments, not to mention the EU, which will grind this into dust through regulation after regulation if it has too. It is an incredibly easy win for politicians, as nearly all the owners in England at least are foreigners, and there is a united front. There are a lot of people to possibly payoff, and a well-run operation would have maybe tried to gauge the political reaction. That they didn't means they probably don't understand the cultural role of the sport in England, which makes it likely that the Americans are leading this. This bit of myopia has Stan Kroneke's grubby little paws all over it.
This seems borne out of desperation and circumstance, and frankly, there isn't any argument done through market analysis that would justify codifying a historically contingent sporting arrangement. Teams wax and wane in popularity. But upending a robust system for one where they could possibly get a few hundred million, while risking the pyramid system on which most of them rely for talent, seems an intensely stupid long and short-term play.
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 12:22 am
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:24 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The notion that American, Indian, and Chinese markets want the spectacle and not the fandom is plainly among the dumbest notions they could possibly put forth.
I think you’re underestimating the branding potential of a competition with the world’s best players, one that could be advertised as such... and underestimating the sheep factor among Chinese, South Asian, and American people who buy the jerseys and apparel but don’t know shite about the clubs
The game was underdeveloped in those areas before tv and internet technology happened. This led to people like me who saw Wolves play on TV and beat Manchester United, one of the original worldwide fan base teams, in 2004. I decided I liked the atmosphere at Molineux, their history and colors. They got relegated, but then got back a few years later. I bought me a jersey and a DVD of their Championship promotion season. Now with games on Fox Soccer I’m able to see them more than I could in 2004. They get relegated again. I follow their scores and don’t watch as much Premier League even though I can’t really see them on TV until near the end of Nuno’s Championship promotion season, one I’ll never forget leading us to now. This is how it is for fans of United, City, Chelsea, etc., except they win trophies.
What are my alternatives? My old high school has been nothing but shitty in soccer. I see a few games, I want to enjoy it, but there’s little fan base other than parents. 50-100 people on a good night counting the other team’s fans. Maybe the Jesters, and I’ve been, but they’re on again off again now, and it’s hard to find info sometimes. Same goes for any GCPL team. The closest MLS team is either Houston (meh), Dallas (haha), or now Atlanta (yuck). Thing about MLS and EPL is that the games DONT conflict time wise and the leagues aren’t really rivals. You CAN be a fan of both.
This Super League is attempting to sell to lots of Biden voters, just saying, and a lot of mindless Asians and Africans whose biggest interactions will be jersey sales and gambling.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:26 pm to DByrd2
quote:
There is a large amount of folks who literally just latch on to some of these clubs for social stature and wear their gear around without actually giving a damn about soccer as a whole.
And there is a large amount of random people who find meaning in the minutia of fan culture. You have random Japanese dude who support Stockport County, or Gambians who become Burnley fans, or random people associated with LSU becoming fans. I'm utterly skeptical of the ability of American market research firms to actually understand soccer fan culture, as despite American involvement for two decades, they still can't seem to grasp it. You can see this through the cringey shite MLS does, but you can also see this in the simple things like pushing for ending blackouts, or simplifying the television structure to increase the fanbase. I mean, Perez was complaining about kids playing too many video games to sit through a full match, which is a straight up boomer complaint, and though he isn't American, these executives don't understand the role video games have played in developing new fans. Another aspect they don't seem to get is how easy it would be to grow the game if they embraced Twitch, with some players being natural stars on that medium. It's mind-numbingly stupid that these clubs are talking about TV money like its 2002.
The fact of the matter is that most of these clubs are not professionally run organizations, despite the slick looks. They don't understand what the product is, and they show they don't understand by using arguments which are so myopic that anyone who has any familiarity with the sport either can see through them, or invent a new reality where they could possibly be true, contingent upon numerous factors. All of their arguments are asinine, if actually investigated.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:30 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
I think you’re underestimating the branding potential of a competition with the world’s best players, one that could be advertised as such... and underestimating the sheep factor among Chinese, South Asian, and American people who buy the jerseys and apparel but don’t know shite about the clubs
Well this isn't my experience at all. How many times have you been to South Asia?
quote:
he game was underdeveloped in those areas before tv and internet technology happened. This led to people like me who saw Wolves play on TV and beat Manchester United, one of the original worldwide fan base teams, in 2004. I decided I liked the atmosphere at Molineux, their history and colors. They got relegated, but then got back a few years later. I bought me a jersey and a DVD of their Championship promotion season. Now with games on Fox Soccer I’m able to see them more than I could in 2004. They get relegated again. I follow their scores and don’t watch as much Premier League even though I can’t really see them on TV until near the end of Nuno’s Championship promotion season, one I’ll never forget leading us to now. This is how it is for fans of United, City, Chelsea, etc., except they win trophies.
What are my alternatives? My old high school has been nothing but shitty in soccer. I see a few games, I want to enjoy it, but there’s little fan base other than parents. 50-100 people on a good night counting the other team’s fans. Maybe the Jesters, and I’ve been, but they’re on again off again now, and it’s hard to find info sometimes. Same goes for any GCPL team. The closest MLS team is either Houston (meh), Dallas (haha), or now Atlanta (yuck). Thing about MLS and EPL is that the games DONT conflict time wise and the leagues aren’t really rivals. You CAN be a fan of both.
I don't understand the point you are making here.
quote:
This Super League is attempting to sell to lots of Biden voters, just saying, and a lot of mindless Asians and Africans whose biggest interactions will be jersey sales and gambling.
What the living frick are you talking about?
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:34 pm to crazy4lsu
He’s an idiot
Last time the super league was being talked about he was in support of it
Last time the super league was being talked about he was in support of it
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:39 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:I haven’t but their native clubs aren’t exactly thriving
Well this isn't my experience at all. How many times have you been to South Asia?
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:39 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Last time the super league was being talked about he was in support of it
If his argument rests on an audience being so mindless that increased exposure would not lead to increased fandom of one team in particular, then that is among the stupidest things I've ever heard. The person who would watch the sport and not get invested in the particular narratives that develop over the course of the competition to some degree is super rare. A fan who casually follows 3 or 4 teams, in my view, a deeply invested fan.
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:42 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
I haven’t but their native clubs aren’t exactly thriving
Why do you keep making the absolute stupidest points? No shite they aren't thriving. Settler colonies like India, South Africa, and Australia had different sporting exposures. Thus you see the major sports in those areas being cricket and rugby, which were relatively upper and middle class sports, in comparison to how soccer was spread, which was primarily through sailors and working-class expatriates (generally). India has barely any native soccer infrastructure, but also has large supporter groups for lots of clubs, with fandom working largely the same way as it does anywhere else, despite how mindless they seem to you.
This post was edited on 4/19/21 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 4/19/21 at 10:48 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:we're a settler colony... what I’m saying is, it’s different when you only really experience your clubs via tv. Paying fans have gotten so insignificant to the bottom line that basically every sport everywhere has played a season or two without them.
Settler colonies like India, South Africa, and Australia had different sporting exposures.
They’re counting on people to watch on tv, bet, and buy the merchandise. A lot of people won’t, and a lot of people will.
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