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2
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:23 am to Freauxzen
quote:
So even if he won the Cup, it'll be "Doesn't matter, he still should have brought Donovan. Pointless Cup win."
Kind of a sad way to look at it, but ok, good talk.
Nobody is saying that.
quote:
There are a ton of things to consider, especially with a player as longstanding as Donovan
Such as...?
People keep throwing this out, but never expound upon it.
quote:
Maybe bringing another old player that may have been superfluous would not have proved that he was thinking young to all those players we are looking to entice to play for the Stars and Stripes.
That makes no since at all. Brad Davis is older.
quote:
Maybe he knew he would bench him and barring an injury, that would have caused problems.
Why didn't LD throw a tantrum when Bob Bradley benched him in the 11 Gold Cup?
Where did this "LD is a cancer" shite excuse even come from?
quote:
Maybe he needed to put the leadership somewhere else on the team.
That's fine, then don't call him up after the sabbatical.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:23 am to Broski
Like i said, all speculation on my part to what was really happening behind the scenes. Not what is being displayed to us through the media.
JK and LD had to not see eye to eye on some issue.
Otherwise i dont see a good reason to let him go, Do you? And it goes back to the point, JK is not retard. JK knows how this thing works. LD is better than some players on the 23. Davis is obvious one. The only reason that i think a rational, smart soccer mind like JK has to leave a player like him off is a reason Moss didn't retire with the Patriots, a why TO didn't retire with the Eagles.. etc. not saying LD was the disturbance they were but just looking at it from a logical perspective, that would be a very viable reason for LD not going.
maybe he brought the more valuable older guys to the plans.
JK and LD had to not see eye to eye on some issue.
Otherwise i dont see a good reason to let him go, Do you? And it goes back to the point, JK is not retard. JK knows how this thing works. LD is better than some players on the 23. Davis is obvious one. The only reason that i think a rational, smart soccer mind like JK has to leave a player like him off is a reason Moss didn't retire with the Patriots, a why TO didn't retire with the Eagles.. etc. not saying LD was the disturbance they were but just looking at it from a logical perspective, that would be a very viable reason for LD not going.
quote:
So he brings in older guys?
maybe he brought the more valuable older guys to the plans.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:23 am to uway
quote:
You guys really take the cake.
You feel better now?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:25 am to Freauxzen
quote:
So you know more than Jurgen and he can never win in your eyes? Cool.
So even if he won the Cup, it'll be "Doesn't matter, he still should have brought Donovan. Pointless Cup win."
Kind of a sad way to look at it, but ok, good talk.
Not at all. It was a bad decision, and I do not like Jurgen because of it, but it does not mean he cannot do stuff right.
I still want the best for the team. The US winning the World Cup is the best possible sporting moment I could even dream of, and I am a Cubs and Vikings fan (so I really want a title).
This does not tarnish the World Cup in the slightest. I just would have wanted to take the best possible group to do it. Plus, Landon deserved a proper send-off.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:26 am to uway
quote:
You guys really take the cake.
Thanks bro, why don't you tell me more about how we should start Julian Green like you said in the other thread?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:30 am to Broski
quote:
Such as...?
People keep throwing this out, but never expound upon it.
I have. every post i have made on the matter, but you reject it. I love LD a lot. granted i know i don't love him as much as most USMNT fans, but if he was a perfect off the field player, he would have been brought.
quote:
That makes no since at all. Brad Davis is older.
maybe JK brought him for his left foot set peices with the Germany game in mind. maybe he thought he would defend better than LD and JK planned to play Bob Ball against the germans and hope to put a set peice in.
quote:
Where did this "LD is a cancer" shite excuse even come from?
Coming into camp not at tip top shape helps start it. Maybe the rocky start the two got off to helps.
Maybe it was that LD was playing to low standards in the MLS before the cup that made JK worry about him also coming in out of shape (for his standards)
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:34 am to Broski
quote:
You feel better now?
I really do, since I stopped trying to talk sense to people who pretend to know for certain things they can't possibly know for certain and disregard all but the most shallow and cynical explanations for people's actions (while simultaneously disregarding anything but the most generous explanations for the actions of their heroes).
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:34 am to petar
quote:
I have. every post i have made on the matter, but you reject it. I love LD a lot. granted i know i don't love him as much as most USMNT fans, but if he was a perfect off the field player, he would have been brought.
You are throwing around conjecture that has no evidence surrounding it.
quote:
maybe JK brought him for his left foot set peices with the Germany game in mind. maybe he thought he would defend better than LD and JK planned to play Bob Ball against the germans and hope to put a set peice in.
Considering how Davis played in that match and how we have a hole on the left side of the midfield, should that be an indictment on JK's player personnel judgement?
quote:
Coming into camp not at tip top shape helps start it.
Wasn't it reported that he was third in the beep test?
quote:
Maybe it was that LD was playing to low standards in the MLS before the cup that made JK worry about him also coming in out of shape (for his standards)
Do you really want me to compare LD and Davis' MLS stats before the 30-man roster was announced?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:35 am to uway
quote:
I really do, since I stopped trying to talk sense to people who pretend to know for certain things they can't possibly know for certain and disregard all but the most shallow and cynical explanations for people's actions (while simultaneously disregarding anything but the most generous explanations for the actions of their heroes).
It hilarious that you are creating heroes in villains in all of this. How dare people have different view points and be civil about it?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:41 am to Broski
quote:
Considering how Davis played in that match and how we have a hole on the left side of the midfield, should that be an indictment on JK's player personnel judgement?
He made a bad tactical decision prior to the game.
It might not have been LD for Davis as the last decision anyways.
quote:
Wasn't it reported that he was third in the beep test?
wasnt it reported and admitted by Donovan that he wasn't in his best shape prior to the cup? And im not comparing Davis to Donovan's mls form. Dovovan admitted he wasn't in the best shape; add that with the fact that he was not playing well in the MLS, shows that he was not in his best form and/or taking preperation seriously.
If you are not in your best form and have not busted your arse to be the best player you could be prior to the cup, it prbly makes you more susceptible to being left off. right?
add that with the two didn't get off to the best start. Add that with the two are both very prideful headstrong not sugar coating people. The two were prbly not on the best terms prior to the cup. That make you more likely to being left off.
Like i have said 900 times, in sports, a team cuts a great, older player all the time, for scheme reasons, for personnel reasons, for personal reasons. Why is the outrage so loud and blind here?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:42 am to Broski
quote:
It hilarious that you are creating heroes in villains in all of this
Wow. Does this fit the definition of irony? I get confused about the usage of that word.
quote:
How dare people have different view points and be civil about it?
HOLY shite
You are the least self-aware person I e-know.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:45 am to Freauxzen
quote:
But his dedication can be questioned simply based on that fact alone. Therefore, if you bring him, you wouldn't start him, then the question begins.
Which is fine - if in early 2013, Jurgen comes out and says "Landon's a quitter - and this team doesn't need quitters." That's a perfectly acceptable stance to take.
But it's pretty shitty to let him carry you to a Gold Cup championship and bring him back into the fold in qualifying and use him in those games - and use the media to convey that he wasn't fit, he wasn't a forward.
All of that shite was disingenuine. Couple that with the douchebag son's tweet - and if this doesn't ring of "putting Donovan in his place", you're either willfully or blissfully ignorant.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:45 am to uway
quote:
Wow. Does this fit the definition of irony? I get confused about the usage of that word.
quote:
HOLY shite
You are the least self-aware person I e-know.
Where am I vilifying people and where haven't I been civil in my discussions?
Continue making the jabs, I really don;t care.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:46 am to fightingtigers98
I couldn't help but laugh every time they would cut to him in LA during coverage of the World Cup especially during the Ghana game. He just had this look of "I hate my life." It was sad, but mostly hilarious. He had every right to be bitter.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:47 am to petar
quote:
He made a bad tactical decision prior to the game.
It might not have been LD for Davis as the last decision anyways.
I think starting Brad Davis against Germany may have always been Jurgen's plan. It just did not work out.
quote:
wasnt it reported and admitted by Donovan that he wasn't in his best shape prior to the cup? And im not comparing Davis to Donovan's mls form. Dovovan admitted he wasn't in the best shape; add that with the fact that he was not playing well in the MLS, shows that he was not in his best form and/or taking preperation seriously.
Donovan routinely was our most fit guy for years. It is true that he did not have the same fitness. However, third on beep test is still good. It is just not the fitness of peak Donovan.
Omar Gonzalez was not in peak shape due to an injury, but I do not think anyone questioned his inclusion on the 23.
quote:
add that with the two didn't get off to the best start. Add that with the two are both very prideful headstrong not sugar coating people. The two were prbly not on the best terms prior to the cup. That make you more likely to being left off.
Agreed. It still should not have come to this.
quote:
Why is the outrage so loud and blind here?
Because the resulting choices are so far inferior as players.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:50 am to Broski
quote:
Nobody is saying that.
Saying it's a "bad decision" regardless of the outcome is in fact saying that it's pointless.
If you were honest you might criticize Jurgen now that's fine before the end result, but if we won the cup or did better than we expected, then your tune should change. Simple as that. If we had a positive end result then you should at least admit:
"Maybe I was wrong and not bringing Donovan was a good idea. We made it further than I thought."
I don't see how a positive outcome for the US doesn't at least neutralize the criticism. Maybe it wasn't a "good decision," but it was certainly a "workable decision." If we have a positive result from the Cup. There's no other way around it. Otherwise you either think you know more than Jurgen, think Jurgen doesn't want to win, or think that we can have a "more better positive result." And yes, that grammar was intentional. It's like saying that if we won the cup, we could have won the cup, "even better with Donovan." Never satisfied.
quote:
Such as...?
Oh read, I made a long list of things that are fairly plausible. I mean what if Donovan told Jurgen that if he came he would want to be captain. Or that he deserved captain. That's a harmless comment, but it can cause a lot of damage If you haven't coached ball, I don't think you get how these things can play out, especially under this immense pressure.
quote:
That makes no since at all. Brad Davis is older.
Like I said Davis was a weird choice instead of Donovan. And we aren't certain that it was Landon or Davis right? Maybe Davis had a spot for a completely different reason and it was Landon or Mix/Zusi.
quote:
Why didn't LD throw a tantrum when Bob Bradley benched him in the 11 Gold Cup?
Where did this "LD is a cancer" shite excuse even come from?
Who said Donovan is a cancer. If you go back and read I said that PEOPLE, you Critics, Commentators, might have put pressure on Jurgen if Donovan sat the bench. I never said Donovan would be the problem. The mere fact that we are still talking about this is proof that benching Donovan would have certainly been a problem.
quote:
That's fine, then don't call him up after the sabbatical.
Different situation. We used plenty of players in qualifications and friendlies that we didn't bring to the cup. You need a system of players to get there, then you need 23 to win the cup. You don't just have those 23 for four years before the cup. That's nonsense.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 11:54 am
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:50 am to Vicks Kennel Club
Yup leaving LD behind for Davis was a great idea
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:53 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Like I said Davis was a weird choice instead of Donovan.
Ok, that has been the crux of my argument since day 1. Essentially, that is all I have been arguing.
quote:
Who said Donovan is a cancer. If you go back and read I said that PEOPLE, you Critics, Commentators, might have put pressure on Jurgen if Donovan sat the bench. I never said Donovan would be the problem.
Well now the pressure is on Klinsmann to find somebody to help out on the attack from the left side.
quote:
Different situation. We used plenty of players in qualifications and friendlies that we didn't bring to the cup. You need a system of players to get there, then you need 23 to win the cup. You don't just have those 23 for four years before the cup. That's nonsense.
But you're argument was that Klinsmann was done with Donovan after his sabbatical. If that was the case, why call him in to the Gold Cup, start him in our biggest WCQ's and then give him the armband for the January camp?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:56 am to Broski
quote:
Where am I vilifying people
Y'all have completely vilified Klinsmann for dropping your hero Landon.
That I have to point that out is amazing.
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