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re: Is the current USMNT group really better than the Howard/Donovan/Dempsey era?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:22 am to DByrd2
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:22 am to DByrd2
quote:
Sometimes I think you and Broski just enjoy arguing for the sake of it.
Da frick, I've said this team isn't that good a bunch.
Also, it's rich as hell that it's just us that argue when every USMNT thread has the same cast of cast of characters bringing up the same talking points ad nauseum (myself included).
You are arguing just as much.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 9:37 am
0
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:04 am to SmogkDeizKnutz
quote:
Is the current USMNT group really better than the Howard/Donovan/Dempsey era?
I haven't been watching as long as many of y'all but have they always been this inconsistent? The game against Colombia was awful but they were completely different against Brazil.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:20 am to SmogkDeizKnutz
More talent, yes, but poorly coached
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:35 am to lsugorilla
quote:
I think this is what we are missing. Pulisic gets it sometimes. Gio gets it sometimes. Mckennie gets it sometimes. But as a team we don’t play like the rest of the world is against us and we have to prove something. I’m not saying our players don’t have heart. And I’m not saying they are soft. And I’m not saying they don’t play for each other. And are not trying. But there is something missingg
I wonder how much of that intangible is lost by having nearly an entire squad of Euro based players. I think you naturally lose that internal need to prove yourself, and so we’ve lost some of that as a national team. I’m not dogging them for it either, it was bound to happen.
now we just have to figure out how to recreate that in the aggregate. like you said, they obviously care. no one can accuse them of that. but something is off and it’s hard to articulate
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:54 am to SmogkDeizKnutz
That group also finished second in the confederations cup in 2009. They knocked off top ranked Spain (during their ridiculous run) to get there. Prob the biggest win in our history. This team can barely handle anyone in the top 20.
And I blame Berhalter.
And I blame Berhalter.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 10:58 am
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:08 am to bad93ex
quote:
I haven't been watching as long as many of y'all but have they always been this inconsistent?
Unfortunately yes. They'll lose a stinker to Canada or tie a Caribbean team, then turn around and beat Mexico like its nothing.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:44 am to SeeeeK
quote:
More talent, yes, but poorly coached
More topend talent, but I don't think this team is as deep as 2010 or even 2002 in terms of quality players.
It's a lot easier for Americans to get picked up by Euro clubs now than it was then, so I don't think the amount of euro-based guys we have now compared to then is necessarily a good way to judge.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:42 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Sometimes I think you and Broski just enjoy arguing for the sake of it.
Sure, we are the only two people that have a differing opinion, on a message board. Oh the horror of not having an echo chamber.
quote:
You are arguing just as much.
Yeah but we are the baddies because we don’t repeat ad nauseum the talking points from QSMNT Twitter.
The difference in type/scope of discussion between here, Reddit, Twitter, and the scuffed discord server is fascinating. I personally enjoy scuffed the most as it’s a super passionate and invested fan base who live and breathe USMNT. Far more nuance (and mutual respect) to the discussion than other forums.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 6/18/24 at 6:45 pm to jbird7
quote:
That group also finished second in the confederations cup in 2009. They knocked off top ranked Spain (during their ridiculous run) to get there. Prob the biggest win in our history.
And it only happened because we beat Egypt by three, Italy lost to Brazil by 3, and we squeaked by them on goals scored with the same GD. Fine margins. But man, that game was incredible.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:31 pm to cwil177
quote:
The difference in type/scope of discussion between here, Reddit, Twitter, and the scuffed discord server is fascinating. I personally enjoy scuffed the most as it’s a super passionate and invested fan base who live and breathe USMNT. Far more nuance (and mutual respect) to the discussion than other forums.
I had a good laugh at Girth labeling me "always negative" the other day when that dude led the charge on saying Claudio and Danielle did nothing wrong just because it was at the expense of Gregg
Wild times on this board when the "negative" opinion is saying the MNT coach is mostly meh, sometimes bad and sometimes decent instead of thinking he's the most evil man on earth
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:38 pm to cwil177
quote:
did about as well as expected in the WC
As well as expected because we have a mediocre coach? Sure. But that team, properly coached, wins their group and likely gets to the quarters. England was winnable, easily, and a Wales tie was a let down.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 7:42 pm to SUB
quote:
But that team, properly coached, wins their group and likely gets to the quarters.
When you say properly coached, do you think Bruce or Bob take that team further?
I don't. That team was very young and raw.
I guess what I'm asking is, what does properly coached mean? If it's "if we had *insert prem or La Liga coach here* then we would've beat the Netherlands", I'm just not sure that's realistic because we will never have that coach.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:00 pm to Broski
quote:
I had a good laugh at Girth labeling me "always negative" the other day when that dude led the charge on saying Claudio and Danielle did nothing wrong just because it was at the expense of Gregg
I led the charge? I had this post concerning the Gio/Gregg situation and this was it. I'll just chalk it up to an honest mistake on your part
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:02 pm to Girth Donor
Oh shite, you actually agreed with me on something!
My mistake bud
You also proved that I'm not always negative!
My mistake bud
You also proved that I'm not always negative!
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:20 pm to Broski
I think the earlier teams of the late nineties to mid 2010’s were certainly easier to cheer for.
They were outmatched nearly every outing, perpetual underdogs, but they played with heart. They played together. And, in a grandiose sense, they played for their country.
McBride, C. and J. Jones, Stewart, Reyna, Cherundalo, etc…they would bleed for each other out there. We DEPENDED on our keeps (Keller, Friedel, Howard) to play Herculean to keep us in matches/tourneys.
I don’t see anybody on our squad who has the same consistent heart/character.
They were outmatched nearly every outing, perpetual underdogs, but they played with heart. They played together. And, in a grandiose sense, they played for their country.
McBride, C. and J. Jones, Stewart, Reyna, Cherundalo, etc…they would bleed for each other out there. We DEPENDED on our keeps (Keller, Friedel, Howard) to play Herculean to keep us in matches/tourneys.
I don’t see anybody on our squad who has the same consistent heart/character.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:33 pm to BamaCoaster
quote:
McBride, C. and J. Jones, Stewart, Reyna, Cherundalo, etc
All of these guys (except for Earnie who ironically was probably the most technical of that bunch) made it to a top 4 league in Europe before it was cool to dip into the American market.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:43 pm to Broski
Cobi jones played in Europe??
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:45 pm to BamaCoaster
Played at Coventry when they were in the Prem, right before MLS' inception
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:27 pm to GeauxLSUGeaux
quote:
They were one wondolowski shank away from beating Belgium
Basically would have been the last play of the match. I did this when Wondo shanked it.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:01 pm to SUB
quote:
As well as expected because we have a mediocre coach? Sure. But that team, properly coached, wins their group and likely gets to the quarters. England was winnable, easily
This is the USMNT fan delusion we have come to know and love
England has the most expensive team in the world by far based on value. The collective value of our roster is more than a billion dollars less than England. In 2022 not a single one of our players would make England’s starting 11 (Robinson might, now). They started Rice, Saka, Kane, Bellingham, and Sterling in that game and in spite of that we were 6 inches away from a win. A tie in that game was an upset. No coach makes England an “easily” winnable game.
We are still so far behind the world in terms of talent yet fans think we should easily beat top 5 teams in the World Cup
Who in the top 13 of the Elo Rankings should we be beating? Until our player pool starts looking like those teams I don’t think the quarters should be an expectation. Does a coach better than Gregg make us a favorite against these teams? Yeah, I don’t think so.
Imo we won’t be the favorite over any top 8 team for another generation at least.
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