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Message
re: Wired magazine - no, there are no 150 year olds getting Social Security
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:51 am to Eurocat
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:51 am to Eurocat
quote:
Computer programmers quickly claimed that the 150 figure was not evidence of fraud, but rather the result of a weird quirk of the Social Security Administration’s benefits system, which was largely written in COBOL, a 60-year-old programming language that undergirds SSA’s databases as well as systems from many other US government agencies.
So fix it. They are admitting that it is outdated as frick and has weird quirks. Use some of our tax dollars to get it up to date. I mean that's just common sense. My guess is that the "quirk" they are referencing is really a "feature".
quote:
COBOL is rarely used today, and as such, Musk’s cadre of young engineers may well be unfamiliar with it.
It's rarely used today? Then why are we using it for such an important endeavor? And I assure you, his auditors were unfamiliar with it, they got up to speed real fast.
quote:
Because COBOL does not have a date type, some implementations rely instead on a system whereby all dates are coded to a reference point. The most commonly used is May 20, 1875, as this was the date of an international standards-setting conference held in Paris, known as the "Convention du Mètre."
Explain t o me, like I'm 5, why a program would code to a default date that pre-dates the computer program, pre-dates the system that it is tracking. This makes no sense.
1
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:51 am to MrFantastic
quote:
t's amazing that they can conduct a thorough investigation into this in less than a day to disprove the allegations
They actually proved the allegations, they just don't realize it
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:52 am to Eurocat
So Americans should be fine with a coding system that is so antiquated, it can’t determine who is alive or dead?
Good job Wired!
Good job Wired!
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:52 am to Eurocat
So why did the bitch heading the department resign??
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:53 am to Eurocat
So why wasnt this fixed under USDS? And why do you have a problem with DOGE (renamed from USDS) looking into this?
So theese rando nerds had access to all of our government health care data under Obama.
quote:
Mikey Dickerson, Administrator of the U.S. Digital Service, and Jen Pahlka, former Deputy CTO of the United States and founder of Code for America, gave a talk at the 2015 SXSW Interactive Festival on “How Government Fails and How You Can Fix It.”
quote:
Right now, at least, in this moment, we have overwhelming demand for engineers like yourself in the federal government. And we have overwhelming supply of people that want to come help.
For these reasons, we have proposed in the President’s 2016 budget a total of $105 million to create copies of the U.S. Digital Service team inside all of the 24 major agencies, for a total of around 500 people. The artificial barrier that has kept the technology industry and the public sector separated on different evolutionary paths is porous right now, and if enough people cross over, it can be destroyed.
Some of you, not all of you, are working right now on another app for people to share pictures of food or a social network for dogs. I am here to tell you that your country has a better use for your talents.
quote:
The Affordable Care Act, I just told you about. The Social Security Administration mails checks from a mainframe running COBOL, which might kind of be OK except that more than half of the workforce that maintains it is at or near retirement age. What happens then? The Department of Veterans Affairs has a serious backlog of disability claims. The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service processes permanent resident applications and everything else on paper. If you lose your green card, it will take you 6–8 months to get a new one and in the meantime you will not be able to prove you have the right to be in the country or get a job.
All of these are design and information processing problems and all of these are matters of life or death to millions of citizens and all of them are things you can fix if you choose to.
quote:
Ready to get involved? Apply to join the U.S. Digital Service here: www.whitehouse.gov/us-digitalservice
So theese rando nerds had access to all of our government health care data under Obama.
This post was edited on 2/18/25 at 10:00 am
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:54 am to Eurocat
these guys are pea brains.
Companies and all levels of government spent billions in the late 90s to accomodate the problem they describe. It was a very, very big deal. I spent a couple of years doing this kind of work. I would be shocked if date data with no century exists anywhere in their systems.
It's POSSIBLE that some invalid data snuck through the "year 2000 updates", but it is very unlikely, considering birth year means everything in deriving social security benefits. You would think they paid extremely close attention.
Companies and all levels of government spent billions in the late 90s to accomodate the problem they describe. It was a very, very big deal. I spent a couple of years doing this kind of work. I would be shocked if date data with no century exists anywhere in their systems.
It's POSSIBLE that some invalid data snuck through the "year 2000 updates", but it is very unlikely, considering birth year means everything in deriving social security benefits. You would think they paid extremely close attention.
This post was edited on 2/18/25 at 9:55 am
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:54 am to jclem11
quote:
The 19 year old DOGE nerds are auditors tho. lmao.
They are collecting data, you idiot.
quote:
You need a base level of understanding about the organization and operations to audit it. Keep JAQing off tho; I'm sure it makes you feel very smart.
Your lack of self-awareness is staggering
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:55 am to SouthEndzoneTiger
quote:
And I assure you, his auditors were unfamiliar with it, they got up to speed real fast.
They were so unfamiliar with it, they found the problems with it and caused this ridiculous article to be written
The fact the author is so oblivious that they are pointing out part of the problem, while acting like it isn't a problem, its just a feature, is amazing.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:55 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
What a weird thing to say. Nobody has said their are actually 150 year olds getting SS.
Fox News -
LINK
By Sam KosmasUpdated February 14, 2025 12:58pm
Elon Musk claims there are 150-year-olds on Social Security
Musk, who has been given significant flexibility by President Trump to reduce government spending through the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), spoke at a press conference on Tuesday.
Musk makes claims about Social Security
"If money is spent badly. If your taxpayer dollars are not spent in a sensible and frugal manner, then that's not okay. Your tax dollars need to be spent wisely on the things that matter to the people," Musk said.
"It’s just common sense. It's not Draconian or radical. I think it's really just saying let's look at each of the expenditures and say, is this actually in the best interest of the people, and if it is, it's approved, if it's not, we should think about it," he added.
"There's crazy things, like, just a cursory examination of Social Security and we've got people in there that are about 150 years old," Musk said. "Now, do you know anyone that's 150? I don't. OK. They should be on the Guinness Book of World Records, they're missing out."
"So, you know, that's the case where, like, I think they're probably dead is my guess, or they should be very famous. One of the two," he added.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:56 am to Eurocat
I got caught speeding in a school zone.. the problem is that I was ticketed during Christmas break when schools were off due to holiday
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:56 am to Eurocat
quote:
There's crazy things, like, just a cursory examination of Social Security and we've got people in there that are about 150 years old," Musk said. "Now, do you know anyone that's 150? I don't. OK. They should be on the Guinness Book of World Records, they're missing out."
You’re such a moron.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:56 am to Eurocat
Why would someone write this article?
Knowing how inept and corrupt the government is, why would someone write this besides getting paid to do so by a shadowy figure?
Knowing how inept and corrupt the government is, why would someone write this besides getting paid to do so by a shadowy figure?
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:56 am to Eurocat
quote:
Elon Musk has repeatedly claimed that his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) project
This is editorializing. It is LITERALLY called that.
quote:
when it alleged that 150-year-olds were claiming Social Security benefits.
I don't believe he ever alleged that. Just that there were 150-year-olds in the system, which could be evidence of fraud, but is bad business regardless.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:56 am to Eurocat
quote:
Elon Musk has repeatedly claimed that his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) project had uncovered massive government fraud when it alleged that 150-year-olds were claiming Social Security benefits. But Musk has provided no evidence to back up his claims, and experts quickly pointed out that this is very likely just a quirk of the decades-old coding language that underpins the government payment systems.
Link to his claims? Just to make sure they understand the words he used. Libs often struggle with that.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:57 am to Eurocat
quote:
COBOL is rarely used today,
The guys at Wired might be shocked at how much COBOL is still out there, and in mission-critical systems. Some of that stuff has worked for 50 years, and folks are terrified to get rid of it.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:57 am to Eurocat
If those systems are still on COBOL we are in bigger trouble than we first thought
Side note, they still teach cobol early in programming classes so I don't think they are all that unfamiliar with it or at least have the capacity to figure it out pretty easily
Side note, they still teach cobol early in programming classes so I don't think they are all that unfamiliar with it or at least have the capacity to figure it out pretty easily
This post was edited on 2/18/25 at 9:59 am
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:58 am to Eurocat
quote:
Eurocat
That's your comeback?
Your reading comprehension skills are something to behold.
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:58 am to Eurocat
quote:
which explains that since September 2015 the agency has automatically stopped benefit payments when anyone reaches the age of 115.
And what happened prior to September 2015?
Posted on 2/18/25 at 9:59 am to SaturatedPhat
quote:its been decades since I've done any COBOL programming but IIRC it stores dates as integers and uses functions to convert to whatever format you need. It has no problem using these values for calculations, comparisons etc.
So very similar to a Unix Timestamp. Any engineer understands the difference between a timestamp and an actual date. Wired is gay.
I don't think the data has been misrepresented. The question is how much was paid fraudulently and to whom
Posted on 2/18/25 at 10:00 am to Eurocat
I don't think Musk said there ARE 150 yr olds getting paid SS...i think he said If they are it's fraud. This is the left taking something and running with it just like they say "Trump said to inject bleach". The likelihood is that major fraud exists in SS and I am sure they will find some...then the dems will say well it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
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