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Posted on 1/11/19 at 7:57 am to Centinel
yeah i referenced that in my big post
you can go look at Bama's post and see that it's pretty correct, but misses the big picture
it's a really effective point if you just want to hate the west/Europe, though
anyone who thinks that leaving Sub Saharan Africa as a stone age continent would have SSA in a better place today is lying
anyone who thinks that communism taking hold across SSA would have SSA in a better place today is lying
that doesn't excuse colonialism, especially in extreme examples like the Cogo
that doesn't excuse the West creating anti-USSR dictators
but this is where the left's favorite (and oft-forgotten) concept of nuance comes in. the world isn't always black/white. the West did shitty things in SSA. there is no argument. however, given the alternative, it wasn't the worst course of action by any stretch of the imagination
the counter-argument would require the biggest noble savage mythology in human history, where either we (1) never fool with SSA and we just allow almost an entire continent to live 1000 years behind the rest of the world or (2) believe that somehow in their innate goodness, they'd catch up 1000 years of culture and technology on their own (the Wakanda theory)
you can go look at Bama's post and see that it's pretty correct, but misses the big picture
it's a really effective point if you just want to hate the west/Europe, though
anyone who thinks that leaving Sub Saharan Africa as a stone age continent would have SSA in a better place today is lying
anyone who thinks that communism taking hold across SSA would have SSA in a better place today is lying
that doesn't excuse colonialism, especially in extreme examples like the Cogo
that doesn't excuse the West creating anti-USSR dictators
but this is where the left's favorite (and oft-forgotten) concept of nuance comes in. the world isn't always black/white. the West did shitty things in SSA. there is no argument. however, given the alternative, it wasn't the worst course of action by any stretch of the imagination
the counter-argument would require the biggest noble savage mythology in human history, where either we (1) never fool with SSA and we just allow almost an entire continent to live 1000 years behind the rest of the world or (2) believe that somehow in their innate goodness, they'd catch up 1000 years of culture and technology on their own (the Wakanda theory)
Posted on 1/11/19 at 7:59 am to OTIS2
quote:
What stalls The continents progress?
Presidents of each country only stay for a short time, rob the country blind, then leave.....rinse, repeat.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
yeah well try to get support for telling people they need to ditch a shitty culture for a western/traditional one and see where that gets you
I imagine it would upset a handful of overweight baristas with blue hair
Although i think it's all in how an argument is framed and delivered E.g. neo-nazism and skinhead culture are clearly shitty cultures worth ditching in favor of western ideals. It's a short step from there to ditching cultures that breed corruption and exploitation.. personally I think western ides are the natural result of education and higher level thinking
Posted on 1/11/19 at 8:10 am to bmy
no way. colonialism is like racism. it's hard-wired into the belief system of the left. this is one of the sacred x-isms
there is no discussion other than "the West screwed everything up and EVERYTHING wrong today is its fault b/c of [colonial]-ism"
it's kind of like the hardcore feminists who used to deny any biological differences in men and women. they feared once they did that, then any other difference was fair game (and therefore, they ran the risk of allowing a biological argument against feminism)
if they cave on this issue, they open the door to justifying Western-ism, and WHO KNOWS WHERE THAT ENDS?!??!
there is no discussion other than "the West screwed everything up and EVERYTHING wrong today is its fault b/c of [colonial]-ism"
it's kind of like the hardcore feminists who used to deny any biological differences in men and women. they feared once they did that, then any other difference was fair game (and therefore, they ran the risk of allowing a biological argument against feminism)
if they cave on this issue, they open the door to justifying Western-ism, and WHO KNOWS WHERE THAT ENDS?!??!
Posted on 1/11/19 at 8:11 am to OTIS2
quote:
What stalls The continents progress?
Posted on 1/11/19 at 9:37 am to bmy
quote:
Explain
It’s a book. Google it.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 9:40 am to OTIS2
I didn’t know they had reached developing status yet
Posted on 1/11/19 at 9:53 am to I B Freeman
It is private property rights. All the other reasons mentioned come back to this. Tribalism, Colonialism, anarchy ect.
If the people were able to protect property they would have the power and resources to advance. The common property of tribalism and the corruption of war lords rob the people of the rewards of property.
Perhaps an armed public could protect property and reform government.
If the people were able to protect property they would have the power and resources to advance. The common property of tribalism and the corruption of war lords rob the people of the rewards of property.
Perhaps an armed public could protect property and reform government.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 9:56 am to I B Freeman
quote:Against the super powers that will continue to exploit them for profit? You're kidding, right?
Perhaps an armed public could protect property and reform government.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 9:56 am to OTIS2
quote:Must be receiving the same poor quality education as you.
Why Is Africa Continent Still Full Of “Developing Countries “?
What stalls The continents progress?
Posted on 1/11/19 at 10:24 am to OTIS2
quote:
Developing Countries “
This term is actually new. Back in the 60s when we were debating 3rd world issues all of the literature used the term LDCs. Less Developed Countries.
It was deemed too stigmatizing sometime in the 80s so they switched to 'developing'.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 10:27 am to OTIS2
Somehow, it’s racism.
I don’t see how, but that will be what we’re told.
I don’t see how, but that will be what we’re told.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 10:29 am to OTIS2
developing countries is PC for shithole
Posted on 1/11/19 at 10:40 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
anyone who thinks that leaving Sub Saharan Africa as a stone age continent would have SSA in a better place today is lying
anyone who thinks that communism taking hold across SSA would have SSA in a better place today is lying
that doesn't excuse colonialism, especially in extreme examples like the Cogo
that doesn't excuse the West creating anti-USSR dictators
but this is where the left's favorite (and oft-forgotten) concept of nuance comes in. the world isn't always black/white. the West did shitty things in SSA. there is no argument. however, given the alternative, it wasn't the worst course of action by any stretch of the imagination
I don't disagree that it wasn't the worst, though there are certainly examples that were the worst (looking at you, Belgian Congo).
However, it wasn't the best, either. Africa was viewed as an exploitable pawn, worth helping only to the extent that this benefitted whichever Western power (and now China) the most. You drive through SSA today and you see a nice modern road, it's accompanied by a sign indicating which of the US/EU/China helped fund it. Dig deeper, and that funding was provided in exchange for some concession from the government around the country's resources.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 10:49 am to BamaAtl
quote:
However, it wasn't the best, either. Africa was viewed as an exploitable pawn
so was America, India, and countless other areas of the world well ahead of Africa
quote:
You drive through SSA today and you see a nice modern road, it's accompanied by a sign indicating which of the US/EU/China helped fund it. Dig deeper, and that funding was provided in exchange for some concession from the government around the country's resources.
well no shite. China will, from a modern-historical context, make the West look generous (outside of extremities like the Congo). hell your example is a perfect one. Western colonists tried to create infrastructure for the whole area. China will only invest where they are working and will leave the rest shitty. China has no interest in investment or development like colonialists did. There will be no Rhodesia or South Africa left once China leaves.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 11:44 am to TX Tiger
No I am not.
The most powerful country in the world was expelled from the USA in the name of self government.
The most powerful country in the world was expelled from the USA in the name of self government.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 11:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so was America, India, and countless other areas of the world well ahead of Africa
America being viewed that way certainly worked to the detriment of the indigenous peoples - but Africa didn't have the mass deaths of a smallpox epidemic to clear the land in the same way.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 11:59 am to narddogg81
In fairness, developing countries with plentiful natural resource often do poorly. It’s too easy to pump oil, or mine diamonds. These countries have no reason to do the hardwork to develop their societies.
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