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re: Why does Hydroxychloroquine get so much opposition?
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:35 am to SlowFlowPro
It was the paradigm early. Once Trump validated it, the paradigm shifted thanks to the MSM.
Similar to "flattening the curve" to "no vaccine, no open."
Similar to "flattening the curve" to "no vaccine, no open."
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 8:36 am
1
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:35 am to TigerDoc
quote:
Well, I mean, he is bad, but it's really mostly not about him. Rauoult has become a cult hero to the anti-system medicine folks in France and Bolsonaro has managed to get HCQ implemented as a first-line treatment (and had 2 health ministers resign in succession in opposition to his push). It's an international phenomenon.
Once again you are wrong on so many levels. It isn’t just Trump and Rauouit vs the world. Stanford analyzed all drugs in their pharmacological database and HCQ showed in vitro promise. Then the Italian Rheumatology Society did a retrospective analysis of the 65K patients on HCQ for Lupus/RA. Out of 65K patients they had only 20 patients hospitalized for Covid and of the 20 Only 1 progressed to the ICU. Thus the feeling is it works best as a prophylactic.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:37 am to WylieTiger
quote:
It was the paradigm early. Once Trump validated it, the paradigm shifted thanks to the MSM.
Similar to "flattening the curve" to "no vaccine, no open."
yeah there is clearly a partisan bias praying HCQ will be fully discredited due to TDS
just b/c the DEMs and their coordinated media counterparts are anti-HCQ doesn't validate HCQ, though. that's the issue
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:38 am to SDVTiger
quote:
No you are just mad it's being used and trying to come up with excuses
At the start of the outbreak I thought it was reasonable to use off label and to study further, but I didn't support its hype (and it seems to be hyped by the same politicians that generally have been most dismissive of the pandemic itself in the places with the most cases, which is an interesting dynamic).
As additional studies come out that show it doesn't seem to be showing that it helps people with COVID and seems to actually harm them. This is self-correcting feature that exists in medicine. We try things to see if they work, and as we do, we try to adjust our practice based on the evidence.
Where's the self-correcting feature of medical populism? As long as elites are against this, it seems like it's a treatment that can never be abandoned.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:40 am to TigerDoc
quote:
It's an international phenomenon.
let's be fair. there is a lot of international pressure to act in uniformity (the easiest example being the UK)
this push was made on very bad modeling initially and even worse data being given by China and distributed through their mouthpiece, the WHO
it's valid to question this alleged international consensus when you look at it in totality. they CLEARLY are pushing a uniform response and, as we have stated before, they don't even have a fricking plan outside of everyone conforming to a unified philosophy
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:40 am to TigerDoc
If Pelosi told you she was taking it you would claim it was a Miracle Drug
Stop lying to yourself
Stop lying to yourself
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:41 am to KLSU
quote:
Anything Trump says or does the mainstream media will take the opposite stance and turn it into a political issue
True. If Trump had called for a ban on Hydroxychloroquine the Dems would have touted it as a miracle drug and the ban was proof that Trump doesn't want a cure.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:42 am to SlowFlowPro
If CHQ is accepted as a prophylactic and widely used then there will be no “second wave” in time for the election in November
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if the HCQ truthers
How do you define this demographic?
The phrase does not lend itself to thoughtful discussion.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they don't even have a fricking plan outside of everyone conforming to a unified philosophy
and they don't even know if their plan will work
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just b/c the DEMs and their coordinated media counterparts are anti-HCQ doesn't validate HCQ, though. that's the issue
Understood. It sure doesn't help though, because most won't take the time to do research.
Effective or not, HCQ is not the boogeyman it's made out to be. It's been widely used for over 40yrs.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:44 am to supatigah
quote:
If CHQ is accepted as a prophylactic and widely used then there will be no “second wave” in time for the election in November
like with most similar arguments (like muh testing), scale screws you. there isn't enough actual meds to accomplish this
This post was edited on 5/24/20 at 8:45 am
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:45 am to TigerDoc
Your word salad Is designed as a deflection.
The information that you posted, while it may be true, is pretty much totally irrelevant.
The question that you should find the answer to is:
Is hydroxychloroquine fairly effective when administered at an early stage when supplemented with Zinc and a Z pack?
If the answer is yes, then why wouldn’t we use a cheap drug cocktail that is manufactured in the USA? Keep in mind that this drug is reportedly safe based on decades of data.
There are two answers that come to my mind with opposition...politics and money.
The information that you posted, while it may be true, is pretty much totally irrelevant.
The question that you should find the answer to is:
Is hydroxychloroquine fairly effective when administered at an early stage when supplemented with Zinc and a Z pack?
If the answer is yes, then why wouldn’t we use a cheap drug cocktail that is manufactured in the USA? Keep in mind that this drug is reportedly safe based on decades of data.
There are two answers that come to my mind with opposition...politics and money.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:50 am to SlowFlowPro
WTF are you talking about? Isn’t enough meds for what?
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:50 am to supatigah
quote:
Isn’t enough meds for what?
300M people (or so)
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:50 am to Nosevens
quote:
What makes one question if Hydrox can help in Covid-19 ( a virus ) what will do against other viruses ?
It isn’t clear what you’re asking. Hydroxychloroquine is not usually used against viruses. It’s main use is against malaria, caused by a plasmodium, and auto-immune conditions such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. It affects the activity of the immune system, which may be overactive in some conditions. Hydroxychloroquine can modify the underlying disease process, rather than simply treating the symptoms.
It’s my opinion that hydroxychloroquine, when used as a prophylactic against COVID-19, could cause a weakening of the immune system. This would make the body’s response to a COVID-19 infection weaker, with a subsequent stronger effect by the virus.
Malaria
quote:
Malaria is caused by Plasmodium parasites. The parasites are spread to people through the bites of infected female Anopheles mosquitoes, called "malaria vectors." There are 5 parasite species that cause malaria in humans, and 2 of these species – P. falciparum and P. vivax – pose the greatest risks.
Lupus
quote:
It's likely that lupus results from a combination of your genetics and your environment. It appears that people with an inherited predisposition for lupus may develop the disease when they come into contact with something in the environment that can trigger lupus. The cause of lupus in most cases, however, is unknown.
Arthritis
quote:
Actually, “arthritis” is not a single disease; it is an informal way of referring to joint pain or joint disease. There are more than 100 types of arthritis and related conditions.
Infectious arthritis is a form of arthritis that is caused by bacteria, viruses or fungi. Many different types of infections can produce joint inflammation. This type of arthritis is almost always curable. If the infection is diagnosed and treated promptly, there is usually no lasting joint damage.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:54 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Is hydroxychloroquine fairly effective when administered at an early stage when supplemented with Zinc and a Z pack?
The opposition you're seeing to this drug, though, isn't to clinical trials, which are what would answer your question (which is a reasonable question and might be a worthwhile study). The straw man in this debate is that the medical community & the media at large aren't opposed to answering these questions. The opposition is to promoting its use in the media without evidence of its efficacy and now especially with some evidence of increased harms in people with COVID who've taken it. We rightly eventually lose credibility with the public if we continue to prescribe treatments that harm people even if they're asking for the treatment because they're terrified of the disease.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just b/c the DEMs and their coordinated media counterparts are anti-HCQ doesn't validate HCQ, though. that's the issue
While true, the Dems opposition in and of itself is a means to limit (or snuff out...pun intended) validation. In short, provide opposition to OMB no matter what the potential cost to the populace (ironically...primarily impacting their constituents negatively). From what I have gathered, most anecdotal evidence says that the drug cocktail is pretty effective. However, having reliable, independent studies...done in a timely manner, does not seem to interest the Democrats. Just my .02.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:58 am to SOKAL
quote:
Actually Tiger1014, we have known basically from the beginning that it is usually not effective when a person is very unhealthy to begin with and the treatment begins when the patient is at death's doo
This^^^^ is the fact the detractors always want to ignore. It seems if a person is in the latter stages of an acute COVID19 infection there's not much that helps recovery......it's in God's hands.
Posted on 5/24/20 at 8:59 am to TigerDoc
quote:
We rightly eventually lose credibility with the public if we continue to prescribe treatments that harm people even if they're asking for the treatment because they're terrified of the disease.
The side effects of this drug are well known and documented over decades of observations. If the percentage of patients with side effects with this drug are now suddenly deemed to be too much, then shut down every pharmacy because that is a standard than cannot be met by any drug.
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