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re: Why didn't the Hard Rock building collapse like WTC building 7?
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:48 am to GumboPot
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:48 am to GumboPot
My theory on the failure at hard rock:
They were working on the top roof, someone said they started bringing the framing material for the pool the previous Thursday. based on the upper structure failure, then the cascade failure reaction to the subsequent floors under the top floor, i think you will see a failure caused by overloading the top deck with too much staged material.
from the renderings of the hotel, the center core was where the pool, restaurant, and other built out spaces were located. this steel structure would have been designed to hold more weight. the outer ring was just roof and rooms, which is less weight load to carry. if the contractor unloaded the rebar, and framing material in once beam grid section, that section would fail.
that what looks like happened. once the top floor failed it 1) pulled the attached sections down with it and 2) the force of the top floors mass falling 16+ feet tot the next floor exceeded that floors design capacity, failing, and continuing this cycle until it hit the garage level which was formed concrete with post tension cables.
Legal Disclaimer: i am not a structural engineer and nor am i claiming to be one. i also have never been to the site, and dint even know it was being constructed. this is just my opinion on seeing the building fall.
They were working on the top roof, someone said they started bringing the framing material for the pool the previous Thursday. based on the upper structure failure, then the cascade failure reaction to the subsequent floors under the top floor, i think you will see a failure caused by overloading the top deck with too much staged material.
from the renderings of the hotel, the center core was where the pool, restaurant, and other built out spaces were located. this steel structure would have been designed to hold more weight. the outer ring was just roof and rooms, which is less weight load to carry. if the contractor unloaded the rebar, and framing material in once beam grid section, that section would fail.
that what looks like happened. once the top floor failed it 1) pulled the attached sections down with it and 2) the force of the top floors mass falling 16+ feet tot the next floor exceeded that floors design capacity, failing, and continuing this cycle until it hit the garage level which was formed concrete with post tension cables.
Legal Disclaimer: i am not a structural engineer and nor am i claiming to be one. i also have never been to the site, and dint even know it was being constructed. this is just my opinion on seeing the building fall.
1
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:48 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Everyone has a weakness.
I don't appeal to authority until I'm satisfied. My questions are not answered.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:48 am to GumboPot
Perhaps because there was no underground subway underneath the Hard Rock that had just been destroyed by the falling of two nearby skyscrapers.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:50 am to Revelator
quote:
I’ve seen multiple reports that the construction company cut corners and didn’t have enough steel beams close enough together to support the weight of the concrete floors.
You think the Construction Company placed fewer beams than the Engineers called for?
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:50 am to GumboPot
quote:
Were did the oxygen come from?
I don't build commercial structures, just residential... but would there not be some sort of ventilation where there could be air drafted in from? Most notably something like a ventilation system or an elevator shaft... or several, that can really get some air flowing?
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:50 am to tigeraddict
I have no issue with your explanation the Hard Rock building.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:51 am to GumboPot
quote:
I don't appeal to authority until I'm satisfied. My questions are not answered.
A man with no stomach is never full
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:52 am to Revelator
quote:
I’ve seen multiple reports that the construction company cut corners and didn’t have enough steel beams close enough together to support the weight of the concrete floors.
The building collapsing during construction probably saved a lot of lives, imagine if they completed the project and it collapsed with hundreds of people inside and around the building.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:54 am to GumboPot
quote:
GumboPot
1) I love you. I mean that
2) I don't require for you to understand Bernoulli's principle to keep my helicopter aloft
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:54 am to GumboPot
quote:
My questions are not answered.
That's because they are stupid questions that don't deserve an honest answer. You aren't asking "What caused 9/11" You are asking "Who REALLY did 9/11", indicating that no matter the real answer, you know it to not be true because you are smarter.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:55 am to GumboPot
quote:
I don't appeal to authority until I'm satisfied. My questions are not answered.
But you lack the knowledge to understand the answers. So. You declare them unsatisfactory
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:56 am to OchoDedos
quote:
That was my initial response, not the collapse. What idiot would build anything like that far up Canal.
It's not that far up. It's next to the Saenger. And its not a casino, just a hotel.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:56 am to GumboPot
No Fire, no heat
Posted on 10/17/19 at 9:57 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
I don't build commercial structures, just residential... but would there not be some sort of ventilation where there could be air drafted in from? Most notably something like a ventilation system or an elevator shaft... or several, that can really get some air flowing?
I agree. The problem is ALL center columns failed simultaneously. Internally fire is rather a random event. If there's going to be a collapse I would expect a collapse resembling the collapses of all building fires. The WTC 7 is truly a unique collapse for a building fire.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:00 am to GumboPot
quote:
there's going to be a collapse I would expect
You write this like you have the requisite knowledge to form an expectation. Yet. You admit you don't.
This whole line amounts to
"But why"
Detailed explanation
But why
Detailed explanation
But why
Detailed explanation
But why
Your questions will never be satisfied because you can't understand or you don't want to
This post was edited on 10/17/19 at 10:01 am
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:02 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
I don't require for you to understand Bernoulli's principle to keep my helicopter aloft
Technically it's Euler's equation. Bernoulli equation assumes incomprehensible flow. That is fine when modeling water. It's not fine modeling air. Air is a compressible fluid.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:04 am to GumboPot
quote:
Technically it's Euler's equation. Bernoulli equation assumes incomprehensible flow. That is fine when modeling water. It's not fine modeling air. Air is a compressible fluid
Talk about missing the point
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:05 am to GumboPot
quote:
I agree. The problem is ALL center columns failed simultaneously. Internally fire is rather a random event. If there's going to be a collapse I would expect a collapse resembling the collapses of all building fires. The WTC 7 is truly a unique collapse for a building fire.
How many building fires have you seen that cause total collapse?
From Wiki:
On September 11, 2001, the structure was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm, according to FEMA,[5]:23 while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm.[6]:19, 21, 50–51
The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm. The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires,[7] and at the time, the only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire.[8]
This post was edited on 10/17/19 at 10:07 am
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:06 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
How many building fires have you seen that cause total collapse?
Only three.
Posted on 10/17/19 at 10:08 am to ShortyRob
Watched a documentary where engineers recreated the events from both the official account as well as from what truthers claimed. The head engineer was trying to explain the results to the truthers but they refused to accept the information. Finally, the engineer got fed up, turned the conversation around, and asked the truthers what they think actually happened given the evidence presented. Their answer?
"I don't know but it didn't happen like they say it did"
There's literally no winning with these people unless you give them the answer they demand.
"I don't know but it didn't happen like they say it did"
There's literally no winning with these people unless you give them the answer they demand.
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