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re: Why did the soviet union collapse?

Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:33 am to
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
25294 posts
Posted on 6/26/21 at 9:33 am to
quote:

but why have other communist countries like china not collapsed?


Not full blown communist. They're not that stupid.

Next!
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
32834 posts
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:29 am to
A nation with barely a first world military with a barely functioning 2nd world economy.
Posted by JawjaTigah
On the Bandwagon
Member since Sep 2003
22733 posts
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:36 am to
Given what I see and hear now from Putin’s Russia, I wonder whether it was a real collapse or merely a Soviet costume change into Act 2/plan B scenario.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 6/26/21 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

Given what I see and hear now from Putin’s Russia, I wonder whether it was a real collapse or merely a Soviet costume change into Act 2/plan B scenario.


The Soviet Union was very different.

It was a revolutionary power, that felt it had a moral obligation to support communism everywhere. And overthrow the existing order. It also suppressed Russian nationalism, and promoted ethnic minorities at the expense of Russians. It was also an atheist state.

Russia is a nationalist state, where the culture is driven by Christian and ethnic Russian norms. The state sees the Church as a pillar of stability and a tool to promote healthy social norms. Russia also seeks stability, and has an inherently conservative foreign policy. It tries to stabilize the world, it isn’t interested in supporting foreign revolutions. Change is dangerous, in their mind.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 12:02 pm
Posted by JawjaTigah
On the Bandwagon
Member since Sep 2003
22733 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

The Soviet Union was very different.
The Soviet Union took on the character of a chameleon (which is still a chameleon regardless of color). First and foremost, at the point of their seeming collapse, the USSR was still Russia, and they were a totalitarian state
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54719 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 9:34 pm to
China allows private property, USSR didn't.

Of course, Deng is the one who began to move China forward China would've wound up like USSR if it had stayed on Mao's path.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54755 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:00 pm to
quote:

communist countries like china not collapsed?


China hasn’t been a communist country since the 90s. It transformed into a semi-capitalist dictatorship.
Posted by doc baklava
Between heaven and hell
Member since Oct 2020
883 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:10 pm to
In spite of some economic help from the West.
Posted by Bulldogblitz
In my house
Member since Dec 2018
28107 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:11 pm to
They started letting trannies in the military.
Posted by 2810eph
Mississippi
Member since Jun 2020
164 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:16 pm to
Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and John Paul II.

Western greed and corruption.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:30 pm to
quote:

First and foremost, at the point of their seeming collapse, the USSR was still Russia, and they were a totalitarian state


No... Russian nationalism (Russian chauvinism) was suppressed. Ethnic and regional minorities were also given preference over Russians. And the Russian SSR was used to subsidize the other states.

The Revolution was really led by the havenots of the Russian Empire. People who existed at the margins of society, and didn’t necessarily like Russia.

It’s not surprising these people generally weren’t Russians. And so had everything to gain by suppressing the Russians. So you had Poles, Georgians, the occasional Ukrainian, and a lot of secular Jews. More than half of the Bolshevik leadership was Jewish.

It was parasitic.

-

From a foreign policy perspective it’s an important distinction. Because Russia is very conservative, whereas the USSR was sponsoring revolutions all over the globe, and truly embraced Trotskys concept of a constant and permanent war.
This post was edited on 7/5/21 at 10:22 am
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
51265 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

After there defeat of Nazi Germany they were a world superpower until there collapse but why have other communist countries like china not collapsed?


A better question is how did China catapult to super power status? China would simply be a larger version of North Korea if our Corporatocracy hadn’t cozied up to the CCP for the Chinese market and cheap imports. It’s just the facts.
This post was edited on 7/4/21 at 10:51 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 10:55 pm to
Oh absolutely, Washington and the American oligarchy sold us out.
Posted by Crimson1st
Birmingham, AL
Member since Nov 2010
20456 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:02 pm to
quote:

Why did the soviet union collapse?


Reagan beat dat arse!
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46657 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:25 pm to
They effectively bankrupt themselves trying to keep up with the US militarily. They lacked the infrastructure/economic diversity to effectively sustain other aspects of their nation concurrently.

America played the long game and it paid off
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18072 posts
Posted on 7/4/21 at 11:40 pm to
quote:

if our Corporatocracy hadn’t cozied up to the CCP for the Chinese market and cheap imports.


That’s exactly right. They produce the crack and our economy (and corps/pols) are the addicts.

Posted by Gideon Swashbuckler
Member since Sep 2019
7667 posts
Posted on 7/5/21 at 1:43 am to
My understanding of it is that The USSR was hard nosed Godless communism. They were an empire that turned into a state after a bloody revolution.
The US is built on the idea that rights come from a creator, not the state. Free market enterprise is the economic model that is the linear result of building a republic on the idea that God has made each individual sovereign, master of his own destiny. Our founders clearly believed in God, and they laid the foundation for what would become the greatest country that has ever been, not despite their belief in God but because of it.
China, like Russia was an empire made a state by bloody revolution. Only they learned from the collapse of the USSR, and have evolved. Their current economic model is an attempt to have Capitalism without a free market. It is an evil system. It is built on slavery not freedom. The state has unquestioned sovereignty over the individual and all that he earns. It is what Capitalism looks like when the authors of said Capitalism are Godless.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
60597 posts
Posted on 7/5/21 at 2:55 am to
quote:

They effectively bankrupt themselves trying to keep up with the US militarily. …America played the long game and it paid off
Not much of a payoff. We’re in the midst of bankrupting ourselves. Our governments end result won’t be much different.
This post was edited on 7/5/21 at 2:55 am
Posted by RantardoMontalbon
Member since May 2017
421 posts
Posted on 7/5/21 at 3:21 am to
The USSR collapsed because the Russian people wanted Levi's, Ray Bans and Metallica.

Perestroika and glasnost helped but was it too little too late.

The desire for Western culture killed the USSR.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
130896 posts
Posted on 7/5/21 at 4:26 am to
quote:

other communist countries like china
China is not Communist. It's a classic Fascist State.
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