re: When the Going Gets Tough, the Electric go Petrol

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Battery technology is quickly improving

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Why do you morons keep peddling this myth? Battery technology has not appreciably improved in the last 15 years. The capacity per unit mass of lithium-ion batteries has only marginally improved, the only significant improvements have been in how to program microcontrollers to regulate charge/discharge cycles. That's improved safety, reliability, and longevity of batteries but has not increased their energy capacity.

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Why do you morons keep peddling this myth? Battery technology has not appreciably improved in the last 15 years. The capacity per unit mass of lithium-ion batteries has only marginally improved, the only significant improvements have been in how to program microcontrollers to regulate charge/discharge cycles. That's improved safety, reliability, and longevity of batteries but has not increased their energy capacity.

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Honest question...are you arguing semantics or are you actually saying battery range hasn't increased and charge times haven't decreased?

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No one is forcing anyone

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The shite is getting rammed down your throat and you don't realize it.

The marine market went diesel electric for certain work boats because it made financial sense to do so. Now they are going hybrid because the government will pay them to.

It’s a interesting marketing ploy that EV makers quote range based on a 100% charge, but quote charge time based on a 80% charge level. They do this because the recharging rate is exponential, it takes longer to achieve the last 20% of capacity, than the first 80%.

With the Tesla super charger, charging a model 3 to 80% takes 20 minutes, charging to 100% takes hours.

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It’s a interesting marketing ploy that EV makers quote range based on a 100% charge, but quote charge time based on a 80% charge level. They do this because the recharging rate is exponential, it takes longer to achieve the last 20% of capacity, than the first 80%.

With the Tesla super charger, charging a model 3 to 80% takes 20 minutes, charging to 100% takes hours.

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100% this... But with a Tesla there's rarely ever a reason to need to be at 100%. If you're on a road trip, you can do the quick 20 minute charge to 80% you mentioned, and that's enough to get you to your next super charger.

Only thing off on your statement is it doesn't take hours for that final charge to 100%. It's probably an additional 30-40 minutes.

But yes, it's definitely a marketing ploy to quote range to 100% and charge time to 80%.

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The energy density of batteries in general has improved on average 5-8% annually (doubling every 9-14 years) since the 90s.

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Oh good job child, citing Quora? Was that because it was on the first page of whatever you rapidly Googled because you imagined you had a point to make? All you've done is provided proof you are clueless, a brief examination of that link would have shown you that the discussion covered a variety of battery chemistries, including several using some form of lithium. Lithium battery chemistries are varried and few are suitable for consumer products, the most power dense of which (which bolster that graph by the way) are generally only found in military applications. So, dismiss whatever you want, willful ignorance is a common resort for people like you.

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Oh good job child

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Can you make it one sentence into your responses without ad hominem attacks? I'm the child?

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citing Quora?

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The answers are all cited and numerous. I doubt you have access to the sources that are behind paywalls so I'm forced to give you the wikipedia treatment. This is one better though, since the answers are from verified engineers that work in the field.

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Was that because it was on the first page of whatever you rapidly Googled because you imagined you had a point to make?

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All you've done is provided proof you are clueless, a brief examination of that link would have shown you that the discussion covered a variety of battery chemistries, including several using some form of lithium.

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We are talking about batteries. I'm not sure why you are changing the subject and narrowing your focus on one specific type of battery. Probably because you have nothing better than a red herring or straw-man argument.

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Lithium battery chemistries are varried and few are suitable for consumer products, the most power dense of which (which bolster that graph by the way) are generally only found in military applications. So, dismiss whatever you want, willful ignorance is a common resort for people like you.

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I'm still waiting on your rebuttal that car batteries haven't improved steadily over the past few decades and project to continue to do so for the next few decades at least.

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willful ignorance is a common resort for people like you.

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I'm glad you know all about me. What exactly do you mean by "people like me"? All I can really tell about you is that you are quick to resort to belittling people you disagree with which suggest you are highly insecure about yourself.

If something happens to that battery how much does it cost me to replace it? Dispose of the old one? What sort of service life can I expect from a battery? How often am I going to have to stop and recharge with that 80% charge?

All valid questions.

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We are talking about batteries. I'm not sure why you are changing the subject and narrowing your focus on one specific type of battery. Probably because you have nothing better than a red herring or straw-man argument.

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Because charging/discharging and providing batteries with feedback is responsible for the vast majority of the improvements made. People who actually know this stuff vs you who do not, get this fact.

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I'm still waiting on your rebuttal that car batteries haven't improved steadily over the past few decades and project to continue to do so for the next few decades at least.

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Let's take Teslas 2170 cells, touted as having 50% increased energy capacity over the industry-standard 18650. I'm sure that factoid plays into what you imagine as significant improvement but the 2170 has 46% more physical volume. In 10 years that means a 4% improvement in energy density. Not 4% per year, 4% in a decade and it's exactly the same chemistry as the cells found in consumer products for the last two decades. That's why every EV from Tesla to Ford to Audi and so on use 1200+ lbs battery packs made up of thousands of individual cells. If battery energy density was improving as much as you imagined it did, they would have 100 kWh battery packs that weigh 600lbs by now. But they don't, they just build them bigger with thousands of more cells. You are rebutted.

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All I can really tell about you is that you are quick to resort to belittling people you disagree with which suggest you are highly insecure about yourself.

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I'm quite secure kid, you are just the typical low-info type that parrots things without actually knowing anything. EV homers that pat themselves on the back every time a thread like this is posted.