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re: Whatever happened to the libertarians on this board?
Posted on 12/7/17 at 12:37 am to MrCarton
Posted on 12/7/17 at 12:37 am to MrCarton
quote:Again in the same vein as Marxist Utopia, anarcho-capitalism is a theoretical concept. In that sense there are different reads on what it might represent in purest form.
Private property does not mean "property owned by a single individual" and anarcho-capitalism does not preclude the formation of a nation.
There are certainly variances regarding conceptual formation or function of any "nation" in a pure anarcho-capitalist system. Presumably any "national border" would be abutment of various contiguous properties against some other entity. Unless one envisions our current national borders being significantly altered, the thesis fails when uninhabitable terrain is taken into account.
Regardless, the definition of both "national borders" and of "nation" would necessarily be very different than presently is the case. So would be enforceablity of either. Contention that "national borders" would be secured in the Trumpian sense is silly.
I don't recall a single libertarian here ever calling for open borders, or Obama immigration policy, or holding a position which could be confused as either.
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 6:53 am
1
Posted on 12/7/17 at 1:53 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I wasn't included you, Wolfhound, BBonds...Thats about it...Though you have been a bit of an arse to me lately.
You would be wrong.
Probably me towards you as well. 
Posted on 12/7/17 at 1:54 am to Eurocat
Like you give a shite
What a whiny useless post
What a whiny useless post
Posted on 12/7/17 at 2:23 am to Eurocat
They went back to sucking each others cock on democratic underground
Posted on 12/7/17 at 5:43 am to Eurocat
quote:
not willing to fight for their beliefs
You keep fighting the good fight, bud.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 5:44 am to Eurocat
quote:
Eurocat
Damn man. The last week you've been in a tailspin
Posted on 12/7/17 at 5:52 am to Maytheporkbewithyou
Yep they were young and thought being a liberal was same thing as libertarian. Just like they can't explain what socialism is. Brainwashed fools
Now they've figured it out that they're just a plain ole sorry arse liberal or have been exposed as not being libertarian. Libertarians are fantasy seekers anyway
Sad
Now they've figured it out that they're just a plain ole sorry arse liberal or have been exposed as not being libertarian. Libertarians are fantasy seekers anyway
Sad
Posted on 12/7/17 at 6:48 am to Maytheporkbewithyou
quote:
Most of them were really just libs pretending to be Libertarian.
This is a predominately libertarian board. Not neocon, not liberal, but libertarian. It was. It is.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:01 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
This is a predominately libertarian board. Not neocon, not liberal, but libertarian. It was. It is.
Maybe like 10% of this board in its prime were libertarians. Most of them are stupid Neocons who will fall for anything so long as the Democrats are against it.
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 7:02 am
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:30 am to Old Money
quote:
Pick a side. Centrists and libertarians are cannon fodder
It’s hard when both sides make you cringe
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:32 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
This is a predominately libertarian board. Not neocon, not liberal, but libertarian. It was. It is.
not anymore
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:45 am to Salmon
One can hold a Libertarian ideology and still recognize that political realities of the day mean we won't get what we would want
If I have a list of 10 things ranked from one being ideal in 10 being awful and I can't get one through three I'm probably going to have the good sense to support number 4 even if it is in Conflict somewhat with my primary beliefs
If I have a list of 10 things ranked from one being ideal in 10 being awful and I can't get one through three I'm probably going to have the good sense to support number 4 even if it is in Conflict somewhat with my primary beliefs
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:47 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Again in the same vein as Marxist Utopia, anarcho-capitalism is a theoretical concept. In that sense there are different reads on what it might represent in purest form.
No, there really aren't. Hot tip: Describing ANCAP as "utopian" is a sure fire way to indicate that you don't understand it.
quote:
There are certainly variances regarding conceptual formation or function of any "nation" in a pure anarcho-capitalist system.
Hence my original statement.
quote:
Presumably any "national border" would be abutment of various contiguous properties against some other entity.
Yes, that's what physical borders are.
quote:
Unless one envisions our current national borders being significantly altered, the thesis fails when uninhabitable terrain is taken into account.
I have no idea what this means.In a purely ANCAP society that encompasses the entirety of the US, the borders would be completely different. "uninhabitable land" doesn't pose any particularly difficult problem to the conditions of an ANCAP society.
quote:
Regardless, the definition of both "national borders" and of "nation" would necessarily be very different than presently is the case. So would be enforceablity of either. Contention that "national borders" would be secured in the Trumpian sense is silly.
The only difference is the absence of the state, and you can be damn sure that people will want physical barriers around thier property and potentially their whole community, society, or nation. The fact that Trump was elected with "build the wall" as a slogan is ample evidence of this.
You, like almost everyone else, believe that ANCAP represents a major departure from how people live today, or that it requires a major shift in individual preferences to achieve. It does not. ANCAP only represents the absence of the state and the existence of the private property ethic.
This post was edited on 12/7/17 at 7:49 am
Posted on 12/7/17 at 7:49 am to ShortyRob
I consider myself to be a pragmatic libertarian.
I understand some things just are not going to change and I'm not going to vote based on issues that are pipe dreams.
But I consider some issues as "markers", and if the candidate is opposed to those, even though they might not be major problems, I won't trust that candidate with other larger issues.
I understand some things just are not going to change and I'm not going to vote based on issues that are pipe dreams.
But I consider some issues as "markers", and if the candidate is opposed to those, even though they might not be major problems, I won't trust that candidate with other larger issues.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 8:01 am to Salmon
quote:
I understand some things just are not going to change and I'm not going to vote based on issues that are pipe dreams.
But I consider some issues as "markers", and if the candidate is opposed to those, even though they might not be major problems, I won't trust that candidate with other larger issues.
To be sure there are some deal-breakers in terms of trust
But even then the political climate in the United States is such that pragmatism ends up winning the day.
Generally speaking I find that I never even really given a choice come election day and almost any level.
In my theoretical 1 to 10 ranking with 10 being worst and 1 being best one of the parties rarely if ever supplies me with better than an 8.
This causes a lot of people to think that people like me are party first and always. But I really could give a frick about Republicans because they aren't my ideological equals either
If some Twilight Zone happened and suddenly the Democratic Party looked across the board like they were Zell Miller then I suspect it would be a lot fewer party first people. Not that I really love Zell Miller either but in today's climate the dude would be right wing.
Finally political realities at any given day also have to come into consideration and in 2017 from my perspective the number one danger to the United States is identity politics. It needs to be squashed like a bug and if it isn't every other issue will eventually pale in comparison
Posted on 12/7/17 at 8:10 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Most of them are stupid Neocons who will fall for anything so long as the Democrats are against it.
That's kind of a tell on Democrats for not coming up with something believable isn't it?
Posted on 12/7/17 at 8:12 am to Salmon
Looks at the Israel thread's and tell me this place isn't full of neocohen's.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 8:14 am to Eurocat
'The enemy of your enemy is your friend', E. The Fascist Progs are the real enemy to your Freedom; and you either get on board with whomever is best equipped to whip them...or you stand on the side...in a close fight. Not rocket science.
That said, Libertarianism is an Ideal; totally impractical in today's cultural/political dynamic.
That said, Libertarianism is an Ideal; totally impractical in today's cultural/political dynamic.
Posted on 12/7/17 at 8:15 am to RCDfan1950
Fascist libertarians are my friend
Posted on 12/7/17 at 10:05 am to Salmon
quote:You're mistaken. Thus far virtually everything Trump is doing or trying to do aligns with libertarian precepts. Undoing Obamacare, cutting taxes, reducing spending, boosting economic growth via the private sector, massive regulatory roll backs all jibe with libertarian viewpoints. It shouldn't be a surprise folks here support those policies.
not anymore
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