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Started By
Message
re: What is the REAL reason we can not go back to the old healthcare system.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:04 am to 5thTiger
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:04 am to 5thTiger
quote:
Medical costs in the 21st century have ballooned. Going back to the "90's system" without going back to 90's tech is attempting to take the best of both worlds. It would be like saying, why cant we have the same gas price they had in the 1920's with the same cars with good gas mileage today?
but nothing about the old system really changes the cost issue, just like how the ACA really didn't address it, either
the costs will be the same. the only thing the ACA did was reshuffle how the costs were paid. if we went back to the "old system", it would just redistribute those costs again. your argument just doesn't make sense
1
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:06 am to SlowFlowPro
No, the argument was 46 million people were without health insurance and rising and the system in place was leading us to continue to pay more and more (both in healthcare share of GDP and cost per capita) while fewer and fewer people had health insurance and more and more people were bankrupted by health expenses. That rarely happens in universal systems.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
your argument just doesn't make sense
Mine is simple, 1. it wouldn't be like you remember it to be and 2. can't have the best of both worlds in your scenario. 3. new tech would drastically have changed costs.
quote:
it would just redistribute those costs again
But it wouldn't be "just those costs"....unless you want to go backward medically as well?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:09 am to 5thTiger
quote:
But it wouldn't be "just those costs"....unless you want to go backward medically as well?
the costs are the costs. i'm not arguing they're not more today, but the fact that they are more is irrelevant
going back to a 90s system doesn't mean we're going back to 90s rates
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:09 am to volod
United Health's Q2 profit is up 30%. Tax payer subsidies are a big driving factor for this.
Their stock is up over 300% since O'care was implemented.
Guess which industry is the largest when it comes to lobbyists?
That's the REAL reason they don't want to repeal it.
Their stock is up over 300% since O'care was implemented.
Guess which industry is the largest when it comes to lobbyists?
That's the REAL reason they don't want to repeal it.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:09 am to volod
money
too much money
We spend 18% of GDP on health care. That's more than any other developing nation. Partially because we have developed a system were any body can ask any price for services and the insurance company or government will pick up part of that. Those without insurance don't have that luxury other than bankruptcy and so the asking price continues on. You could once pay for stitches out of pocket (don't try that today).
Then you have this everyone must be saved at all cost to the end mentality. Damn the patients wishes spend everything they have and more to get another 6 months of living hell.
And there's the litigants (us and our lawyers) who'll sue at the drop of hat. Any hat, doesn't matter, as long as they can file. So Doc's order every 1000 dollar test, MRI, and specialists they can find in order to cover their asses. And even their mal-practice insurance is ever increasing as fast (i've been told).
would be much too long to continue....
too much money
We spend 18% of GDP on health care. That's more than any other developing nation. Partially because we have developed a system were any body can ask any price for services and the insurance company or government will pick up part of that. Those without insurance don't have that luxury other than bankruptcy and so the asking price continues on. You could once pay for stitches out of pocket (don't try that today).
Then you have this everyone must be saved at all cost to the end mentality. Damn the patients wishes spend everything they have and more to get another 6 months of living hell.
And there's the litigants (us and our lawyers) who'll sue at the drop of hat. Any hat, doesn't matter, as long as they can file. So Doc's order every 1000 dollar test, MRI, and specialists they can find in order to cover their asses. And even their mal-practice insurance is ever increasing as fast (i've been told).
would be much too long to continue....
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:10 am to Hawkeye95
quote:
Healthcare was pretty rough in the 90s for a lot of people.
Insurance? Or, actual Healthcare?
quote:
The same issues facing healthcare today were there then.
Insurance? Or, actual Healthcare?
quote:
Today they are just worse, but you had skyrocketing premiums, many people not covered,
Ohhh.....INSURANCE!
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:10 am to volod
You can't go back because none of those laws are on the books anymore.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:11 am to TigerDoc
quote:
No, the argument was 46 million people were without health insurance
well they kept changing the number
quote:
and the system in place was leading us to continue to pay more and more (both in healthcare share of GDP and cost per capita)
the ACA literally did nothing to address this issue
it just shifted the costs around a bit and who had to bear them
quote:
That rarely happens in universal systems.
and we don't have anything close to a universal system, both in application and reality
Americans don't actually want a universal system. they want universal access to our current, robust system. that is not possible
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:12 am to volod
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:13 am to volod
Lobbyist
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:15 am to volod
when other people (gov) spend other people's money (yours) on other people, all incentives for controlling cost goes out the window and the health care system makes boat loads of cash... they want that $$$ flowing and will do whatever they can to keep it that way
$30 for a gauze pad?? Hell yea!!
They're fricking us for their own profits... That's the reason we cant go back... too much $$$ left on the table
$30 for a gauze pad?? Hell yea!!
They're fricking us for their own profits... That's the reason we cant go back... too much $$$ left on the table
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
going back to a 90s system doesn't mean we're going back to 90s rates
So essentially the same system that existed until 2010. We do have studies on what would have happened, etc. Kaiser Foundation Interactive tool
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:19 am to 5thTiger
quote:
We do have studies on what would have happened, etc.
serious question. do these studies account for the consumer behavioral patterns of those without insurance?
any study into the population who lacks health insurance is deficient without this data
like i posted yesterday, we cannot have a general discussion about healthcare/insurance for all of America. it's literally too big of a concept and too big of an undertaking for the federal government. we have to break down the issues and discuss potential policies for each. a good starting point is PECs
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:21 am to volod
Because the big health insurance and pharmaceutical companies wrote Obamacare which uses taxes to pad their profits.
They pull the strings on the puppets in D.C. (Democrat and Republican) and they are not going to lose 20 million customers.
They pull the strings on the puppets in D.C. (Democrat and Republican) and they are not going to lose 20 million customers.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:26 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
Insurance? Or, actual Healthcare?
The two are intertwined.
quote:
Insurance? Or, actual Healthcare?
They are intertwined
quote:
Ohhh.....INSURANCE!
Not just insurance. People were routinely denied treatment in the 90s, and 00s and the 80s.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:28 am to Hawkeye95
quote:
The two are intertwined.
ridiculously
quote:
They are intertwined
ridiculously
quote:
Not just insurance.
The quoted text for which I replied was about "premiums" and "coverage"....THAT is "insurance"
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
do these studies account for the consumer behavioral patterns of those without insurance?
Don't know, healthcare isn't really my strongest subject. But I'm relatively certain they would. There are studies for every aspect of this stuff. Although, since there wouldn't have been any changes, we already have studies of behavior...increased emergency room usage and medical bankruptcies were the main takeaways.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:31 am to volod
My 90s health care was ducking awesome. I paid my premium and I paid a copay when I went anywhere for health care. I never got another bill in the mail. Just premiums and copays. I was also more likely to seek help if I was sick. Today I have to be fricking during before I go to a doctor. I don't want to pay a three thousand dollar bill for being seen.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 10:32 am to 5thTiger
quote:
increased emergency room usage and medical bankruptcies were the main takeaways.
obviously
but for a large portion (obviously without data i can't say what % exactly) of those people, it was their own consumer choices that led to those issues. if you pick the super deluxe cable package and a new car instead of an old car over health insurance, then it's on you. people choose luxury goods over insurance and then complain when bad things happen
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