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re: Was Hitler just a response to what Germany saw going on in Russia?
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:43 am to Mohican
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:43 am to Mohican
Germany never had the kind of excellent Constitutional basis that the USA has.
Germany as a nation was born in 1870, as a Monarchy. Only 48 years later, the Allies fundamentally transformed their form of Govt by force of arms. The young Weimar Republic endured for as long as possible, given both interior and externally-provoked difficulties and problems. It did not survive for very long - only about 12 years. It was replaced by an extremist totalitarian regime that lasted for only 12 years.
I guess that if one wanted to examine what happened to the Weimar Republic and ponder whether the USA itself could survive 12 years of the kind of turmoil inflicted on the Weimar Republic before that Republic would fall, it's worth pondering.
Germany as a nation was born in 1870, as a Monarchy. Only 48 years later, the Allies fundamentally transformed their form of Govt by force of arms. The young Weimar Republic endured for as long as possible, given both interior and externally-provoked difficulties and problems. It did not survive for very long - only about 12 years. It was replaced by an extremist totalitarian regime that lasted for only 12 years.
I guess that if one wanted to examine what happened to the Weimar Republic and ponder whether the USA itself could survive 12 years of the kind of turmoil inflicted on the Weimar Republic before that Republic would fall, it's worth pondering.
2
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:49 am to themunch
quote:
He did not want to allow Marxism to infest Germany.
Yep. And it stemmed from a belief Marxism was a Jew ideal. Hence why he called it Jewish Bolshevism.
The Soviet Union existing didn’t put him into power.
The Marxists and other undesirables existing and existing in the land Hitler wanted to seize was his main goal. And that involved a complete annihilation of the people on those lands.
Hitler’s beliefs were formulated mostly during/after WWI. He saw Germany’s surrender as a betrayal and couldn’t comprehend why it happened. He aimed at Jewish bankers/Marxists/etc as the reason why Germany sold out and from that time onward wanted revenge.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:49 am to joshnorris14
quote:
This is nonsense. Hitler's primary concern - especially in the early 1930s, was the restoration of the German State - A vision that was perceived, by the Nazis, to be most threatened by the Jewish Marxists inside Germany. A belief which quickly evolved into genocide of the Jewish population. But the genocide wasn't itself the goal
This thread isn't about Hitler's aspirations, it's about the condition that allowed Hitler's fascism to attain power.
Here's the thing that separates Hitler's evil from Stalin's: Hitler was so evil that his evil was counterproductive. Stalin's evil (save for killing his generals and informants warning him with information he didn't want to hear) wasn't. Like why didn't he put the Jews on the front lines as canon fodder and threaten the men that they'd kill their entire family if they died in battle or defected?
And then the treatment of the liberated Soviet people. In Ukraine, the Nazis were welcomed as heroes and liberators, with women throwing flowers towards them. Why not wait until after you've conquered Moscow to pull the rug out from under them?
And then towards the end of the war, they kept up with the Holocaust instead of putting these useful human resources towards the actual warfront. Hitler was so evil that his evil hindered the war effort.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:52 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If you rose Marx from the dead, maybe save for Japan, China and Russia would be the last 2 countries he would have guessed that went communist. He'd be absolutely shocked. He was pretty confident the first countries to go communist would be Germany, Britain, or America.
Yup. It was supposed to be an industrialized country that revolted after a war.
It pretty much happened with the Paris Commune after the Franco-Prussian war. I’d say that Marx was correct for the most part. WWI caused the same for the Russians.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:52 am to Champagne
The WWI allies, especially France, cut The legs out from under the Weimar Republic. When the Stock market crash hit and loans to Germany were recalled Germany defaulted on her loans. 1/5-1/3 of Germanies manufacturing base (including coal) was siezed. The Weimar leader warned of impending disaster to German democracy if they didn't receive some help from the allies, but it fell on deaf ears and the end result was Hitler.
This post was edited on 6/20/20 at 9:53 am
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:
OMLandshark
Thank you.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:58 am to Mohican
quote:
Was the emergence of Nazism a self-preservatory response to what Germans saw going on in Russia? The same subversive, cultural tactics are being used by today’s leftists and I’m afraid of what a festering counter movement might look like. Extremism on both sides looks like evil, and the loudest voices from the extreme are typically the agents for change.
It was far more complex than just a response to Marxism, but that was a component. The true unifying glue in Germany was the universal hatred of Versailles and the nationalism it created. Much different than our current situation, but they may intersect in the future.
There is a hardcore Moaist undercurrent to the current movement, and the tactics are similar, the suppression of free and open debate by race shaming has been bothering me for years, and it has gone off scale exponentially in the last month.
But the most direct vector to the intersection with Nazi Germany is the breakdown of law and order, and it is freaking me out that it is starting to happen. Once local governments are incapable or refuse to keep law and order, society will break down rapidly as groups will form to enact their ideas of what law and order should be.
At that point, the population will grant any powers to someone who appears to bring peace, and boom, the US becomes an authoritarian state.
I don't expect to see that happen, because I will die trying to keep America alive.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:59 am to Mohican
Hitler was fighting Antifa
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:59 am to Champagne
How many of you know that for a short period of time Bavaria had a Bolshevic communist government/republic. But they didn't last long, they were kicked out pretty quick.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 9:59 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Here's the thing that separates Hitler's evil from Stalin's: Hitler was so evil that his evil was counterproductive. Stalin's evil (save for killing his generals and informants warning him with information he didn't want to hear) wasn't. Like why didn't he put the Jews on the front lines as canon fodder and threaten the men that they'd kill their entire family if they died in battle or defected?
His hatred of the Jewish population, I believe, was a result of the best way to fight the Marxists. Fighting the Marxist revolutionaries individually would be very difficult, fighting the entire race that they belonged to was a lot easier.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:00 am to AU86
quote:
Socialism in the Soviet Union was based on class.
Socialism in Nazi Germany was based on race. Natiionalistic race.
This
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:04 am to Quidam65
NTY
Chaos yields very unpredictable results. It creates an environment we’re those with little power can “miraculously” find themselves thrust into. This was Germany during the rise of Hitler. A country subjugated by France and Britain. A government destroyed and rebuilt with little true central force to uphold it. A society in tatters with an entire generation of leaders and fathers dead. Children growing up impoverished, fatherless turning to prostitution and degeneracy to feed themselves. No moral compass or church to guide them as God had been killed along with millions of men and women during the Great War and Spanish flu epidemic.
From the chaos a desire to return to prior greatness before the war, hence the nationalist rebirth and desire to cleanse their country. Jews ended up taking the brunt of this hate because a majority of entertainment was controlled by them and they were increasingly blamed for the moral degeneracy in the Wiemer Republic. Jewish scholars pushing transsexualism, homosexuality etc.. And then economically Jews controlled the banks which were looked at as the great oppressors of the common man. Add in that a fairly large portion of the communists in Germany were Jewish. Hitler had found his scapegoat and it was the Jewish population of Germany.
Chaos yields very unpredictable results. It creates an environment we’re those with little power can “miraculously” find themselves thrust into. This was Germany during the rise of Hitler. A country subjugated by France and Britain. A government destroyed and rebuilt with little true central force to uphold it. A society in tatters with an entire generation of leaders and fathers dead. Children growing up impoverished, fatherless turning to prostitution and degeneracy to feed themselves. No moral compass or church to guide them as God had been killed along with millions of men and women during the Great War and Spanish flu epidemic.
From the chaos a desire to return to prior greatness before the war, hence the nationalist rebirth and desire to cleanse their country. Jews ended up taking the brunt of this hate because a majority of entertainment was controlled by them and they were increasingly blamed for the moral degeneracy in the Wiemer Republic. Jewish scholars pushing transsexualism, homosexuality etc.. And then economically Jews controlled the banks which were looked at as the great oppressors of the common man. Add in that a fairly large portion of the communists in Germany were Jewish. Hitler had found his scapegoat and it was the Jewish population of Germany.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:06 am to lz2112
quote:
There is a hardcore Moaist undercurrent to the current movement
The New Left starting in the 1960's was a bunch of Little Red Book thumpers.
Even the Beatles sang about it: "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make with anyone anyhow."
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:06 am to Mohican
Hitler was a reaction to what was going on in Germany, it was full of communists
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:07 am to Mohican
Absolutely. The bolshevists scared the shite out of people and were causing quite a problem in Germany with violence much like Antifa today. They were actually the original Antifa
This is early 1930s Germany
[img]LINK [/
Most German citizens and soldiers had no idea what Hitler would do or was doing during his regime until the end. They saw him as a strong uniter of Germany and a leader willing to play dirty to beat back the communists.
This is early 1930s Germany
[img]LINK [/
Most German citizens and soldiers had no idea what Hitler would do or was doing during his regime until the end. They saw him as a strong uniter of Germany and a leader willing to play dirty to beat back the communists.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:07 am to joshnorris14
Hitler blamed the jews for the creation of capitaliism (which Hitler hated) and Bolshevism. He also believed that the jews were behind the sell out of Germany and it's soldiers to end WWI. Hitler raged against the Versailles treaty continuously. He was right on that though, Germany, mainly through French vengeance, got screwed big time.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:10 am to Mohican
quote:
Communism did defeat Hitler, then it defeated itself.
Eh. I think had the US not entered the war in Europe then Hitler defeats the USSR. He had Western Europe except GB conquered and Britain was on life support. If he could have reinforced the eastern front with troops and supplies from the western front then he beats them.
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:11 am to Blitzed
quote:
Sure and apparently Trump to follow.
Following the communists you vote for?
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:12 am to joshnorris14
quote:
quote:
The Nazi party was a nationalist movement, first and foremost, with the designs to return Germany to her prior might. Any additional ideology was secondary to seizing and maintaining power
This is the sanitized version of history that ignores the upheaval of Germany and the rise of Communism for no apparent reason
Interesting topic that I’ve never thought about. I think both of these points are correct though. The nationalistic fervor that hitler was able to drum up was easy-mostly because the German people were tired of getting blamed for ww1. And they were resentful of the terms.
it is reasonable to see how that is backlash to communism that popped up in Russia by blaming the previous government leaders in charge for ww1.
It is an interesting correlation to today in the US , there are communist factions that want to blame problems on white male ruling class and want to destroy nationalism/patriotism by calling it racism. Could cause a backlash in the opposite direction.
This post was edited on 6/20/20 at 10:14 am
Posted on 6/20/20 at 10:15 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
NAZIs were socialists.
Ernst Röhm was a socialist....
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