re: Was Hitler just a response to what Germany saw going on in Russia?

(no message)

A short "answer", that is sure to cause some angst here is..., Hitler was a "Zionist" sympathizer.

Fascism came into being as a reaction to Communism. Mussolini broke from the Marxists. Hitler was motivated by the revolutionaries that went on strike in the German munitions plants during the war and later forced the abdication of the Kaiser. He was in Munich during the Bavarian Soviet and witnessed first hand an armed Marxist takeover of a German state. Germany was rife with Communist agitation and combating Communism was one of the core foundations of National Socialism. Franco's forces fought leftists that were backed by the Soviet Union.

Radical leftism births right wing authoritarianism within liberal nations. Liberty oriented institutions generally prove incapable of suppressing widespread Marxist movements who use their constraints against them. This pushes people into making the rational decision of turning to right wing authoritarians in an effort to stave off a leftist take over.

The moderates in the United States are playing with fire today by not crushing this leftist uprising with state power. They are creating the conditions in which battle lines are being drawn and force of arms trumps rule of law.

quote:

---

A short "answer", that is sure to cause some angst here is..., Hitler was a "Zionist" sympathizer.

---

Hitler wanted the removal of Jews from Europe. Of course he supported Zionism.

The U.S. Lend/lease program played a big role.in saving the Soviets but after the initial effects of Stalin's purge of the military the Soviet got its act together. 80% of all German casualties in that war were inflicted by the Soviets. Their unlimited manpower and tank numbers played a huge role. Hitler even admitted that they made a huge mistake by underestimating both. German lack of logistical ability/prowess really hurt the German army also. If they did not have to halt so often because of logistics they might have made it to Moscow before the real bad weather set in. Hadler predicted that the German army could advance around 300 miles. They had 800-900 miles to advance to achieve their intended target. They had 3 months of reserve fuel supply. So they had to win the campaign within 3 months or quickly or they were screwed. No one told Hitler this before the invasion because they were too scared to. Germany went into Barberossa with.only 19 motorized divisions. Most of its infantry divisions had to rely on horse drawn power to advance which meant they had to advance close to the railroads. Germany has plenty of coal and steel but no oil and rubber so they built trains instead of trucks. They also had to changed the rails in the Soviet Union because they were wider gauge there. This was a slow process.

The German.advance was slowed tremendously by logistical disasters.

quote:

---

How many of you know that for a short period of time Bavaria had a Bolshevic communist government/republic. But they didn't last long, they were kicked out pretty quick.

---

Yes, that's a very interesting but brief period of history. There was extensive political street-fighting between various political factions and the fighting was violent and deadly.

I wonder how long the USA's form of Government could endure an extended period of political violence?

If I were to place myself at the head of the Left right now, I would have organized and mobilized a large enough Leftist group for the purpose of crashing Trump's rally with the intent of totally disrupting it - violence on the floor, everything. Physically charge the Secret Service guards and provoke a violent incident. IMHO, mass media will cause the Public to blame Trump.

This is the time for the Left to try Direct Action against Trump and his bodyguards, IMHO, for the Left.

Don't be surprised if we see extensive violence at any Trump rally for the purpose of disrupting and ending the rally.

For the Left right now - Violence is working for them and they should keep up and intensify the violence. Cause enough chaos and the US electorate can be manipulated to blame and reject TRUMP.

After Trump is gone, the USA can be safely returned to "GIMP of the Globalists" Status like China and the UN intends.

quote:

---

This is the sanitized version

---

Yep

quote:

---

t ignores the upheaval of Germany and the rise of Communism for no apparent reason

---

Yep again.

quote:

---

It totally destabilized Russia amd removed them from the war.

---

But Germany still lost and Bolshevism was everywhere.

quote:

---

No, they were nationalists first and foremost.

---

Well, they were and they weren't. The Second World War is impossible to fully analyze unless you go all the way back to World War Zero - the Franco-Prussian War (the war that led to the modern, unified German state).

Germans had sort of drifted into socialism during the 19th Century. Not via the Revolutionary furor of France or the even worse horror of Bolshevism afterwards, but largely the same socialism that crept across the bulk of Europe in a more leisurely pace. German "socialism" has all the usual earmarks - social welfare programs, some degree of wealth redistribution, centralized control of a broad range of economic and social aspects of life. The main difference between German "socialism" and the rest of Europe is that Germans have always thought that they know best (sound familiar?) and that, while unfortunate to those negatively affected, a generalized war in Europe would be a good thing for everyone if Germany won. The Franco-Prussian War taught them that Germany, with the right allies, could win just such a war.

Conversely, they felt increasingly surrounded with no way out and no way to expand to acquire natural resources to thrive in the modern, industrialized and rapidly industrializing world. The British, French and even Dutch had fairly expansive colonies while Germany was very late to that party. The Russians were transitioning quickly to a formidable power, and with their effectively unlimited manpower, Germany felt increasingly in a "now or never" kind of mood with regards to this war that will ultimately benefit everyone (in their opinion).

But, as all wars are logistical exercises, Germany lost The Great War because they almost starved. They continued to starve in the inter-war years and Hitler built on that.

But, Hitler's Germany wasn't "right wing" - that's the bold-faced, post war lie to equate "right wing" and traditional conservatism with racism. Germany was just a more corporatist rather than collectivist form of socialism. The individual was subverted in favor of the broader German society. Nazism didn't limit itself to a single nation - the Greater German Reich was everywhere in their ultimate vision. Centralized planning, centralized production, encouraging folks to have babies (future soldiers), taking over Lebensraum in order to return folks to a utopian, agricultural existence, etc., these are all ideas rooted in Marxism, not in traditional conservatism of the West. It was nationalistic, in a sense, but a violent, racist nationalism, completely unlike that in other western nations (France, Britain, the United States), or frankly, even nationalism of Fascist Italy - it was a racism whose closest cousin was their other Axis partner, Imperial Japan.

Period.

I never said it was nationalism in the form of American or any other particular nationalism. I simply stated that they were nationalists first, not "socialists" first. The form and scope of their nationalism is an entirely separate discussion.

Hitler's worldview did not center around economic theories, as Marxism does. It centered around the long term maintenance of a people. This was the central purpose of the state in National Socialist doctrine. Hitler only attributed an economic philosophy to his movement after hearing a Gottfried Feder speech. He also stated that the economic structure of the state could always be changed to suit the ever changing needs of the state. There was no economic dogma in National Socialism.

The Nazis can accurately be identified as right wing. The error is when people confuse that with the American right. No one with half a brain compares Nazism to American conservatism, which admittedly, there are lots of half brains in our midst.