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WAPO article for you to read today: explains why we can’t cut health costs to Euro levels
Posted on 6/23/19 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 1:47 pm
LINK
First part of article is simply a rehash of the fact that you cannot fund welfare state off of solely the rich.
Here is the part that I find nicely explained:
The main idea right here:
Path dependency is going to be a huge concept if bernie sanders gets in there and pushes for european levels of health spending.
Does he advocate tearing down American hospitals and rebuilding them the way european hospitals are built?
It would be inane to carry out such an endeavor.
That is an example of path dependency. The options we have today are determined by decisions we made long ago. We chose to build hospitals based on private rooms and labor intensiveness that europe did not build.
First part of article is simply a rehash of the fact that you cannot fund welfare state off of solely the rich.
Here is the part that I find nicely explained:
quote:
This, however, is not even the biggest factor obstructing left-wing dreams. The real thing standing between them and their proposed Scandinavian paradise is Father Time.
Let’s return to national health care. It’s practically a mantra on the left that every other country in the developed world has a marvelous system that provides better outcomes at lower costs, so why would we want to stick with the obviously subpar American model?
n fact, it’s debatable whether the other countries’ systems get better outcomes: Once you’ve controlled for factors that have almost nothing to do with the health-care system, such as homicides and car accidents, it’s not clear people in other countries live any longer. But it is not debatable that they are cheaper; we are the only country in the world that spends a fifth of our gross domestic product on health care.
And why do we spend so much? Because everything is organized to make the system costly, from the cost of labor to the number of machines we use to the way we construct our hospitals. (Yes, we pay a lot for drugs, but drug spending is only a small fraction of total spending, so this cannot account for the difference — and neither, before you ask, can insurer profits or administrative costs).
It is possible that we could have controlled these costs, once, as other countries have done. But as any legislator, or parent, will tell you, it is a lot easier to not do something than to stop doing it. Some things we’ve done can’t be undone at all — our hospitals are now constructed around private- or semi-private rooms with intensive electronic monitoring of patient status, and we can’t convert them to space-saving, labor-economizing open wards without spending more than the project would save us.
quote:
Other cost-saving measures are theoretically feasible but politically catastrophic. American health-care workers are very highly paid compared with their international counterparts, and we have a lot of them, all very well politically organized. Those people have planned their lives around their steady jobs and strong earnings — mortgages, car payments, college tuitions. Suddenly announce that you’re slashing everyone’s salary by a third to make national health care affordable, and you’ll have a modern-day Bonus Army marching on Washington, scalpels in hand.
The main idea right here:
quote:
This is why no nation in the world has managed to make sustainable cuts to their health-care system. They have kept costs from growing, yes, but except in the case of fiscal crises such as the Greek debt disaster, no country has actually slashed what they were already spending. If others can’t, then it’s probable we can’t either — at least, short of a Soviet-style revolution, which is a cure worse than the disease.
What we’re talking about is a phenomenon known as “path dependence”: What you can do now depends on what you’ve already done.
Path dependency is going to be a huge concept if bernie sanders gets in there and pushes for european levels of health spending.
Does he advocate tearing down American hospitals and rebuilding them the way european hospitals are built?
It would be inane to carry out such an endeavor.
That is an example of path dependency. The options we have today are determined by decisions we made long ago. We chose to build hospitals based on private rooms and labor intensiveness that europe did not build.
This post was edited on 6/23/19 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 1:58 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:01 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Many of our healthcare issues would go away if we actually treated the root cause. Eliminate shite foods from Snap and food stamps. If you’re going to depend if Gov for food, you don’t get to eat unhealthy snacks and sugary drinks. All you get to buy are fruits veggies and lean meats.
We are creating the problem then we are shocked that so many people are morbidly obese and having serious health problems. We are paying for it twice.
We are creating the problem then we are shocked that so many people are morbidly obese and having serious health problems. We are paying for it twice.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:20 pm to RebelExpress38
Funny thing is that's a political winner in both sides of the aisle. They still won't do it though.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:38 pm to wutangfinancial
Michelle Obama tried to make free school lunches healthier but Trump pulled the plug on it.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:47 pm to Smart Post
quote:
Michelle Obama tried to make free school lunches healthier but Trump pulled the plug on it.
Obama forced healthy lunches in schools and removed choice. Trump restored choice - and left it in the hands of the local authorities and their bosses - the voters.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:48 pm to Smart Post
Schools serve shitty unhealthy snacks and bad meals?
Posted on 6/23/19 at 2:54 pm to BobBoucher
Why are you arguing with me? The idea postulated was that government-provided food should be forced to be healthy (which got 5 upvotes), then when I brought up an example of it being done, the cries of "choice" billow to the surface.
Let's just cut to the chase: If the answer is to force food stamp recipients to eat only healthy foods, then they will throw it in the trash and go hungry, much like the Obama school lunch initiative.
Y'all weren't willing to make them eat it or starve with school lunches (because it was an Obama idea?), what makes you have the resolve to force food stamp recipients to do the same?
Let's just cut to the chase: If the answer is to force food stamp recipients to eat only healthy foods, then they will throw it in the trash and go hungry, much like the Obama school lunch initiative.
Y'all weren't willing to make them eat it or starve with school lunches (because it was an Obama idea?), what makes you have the resolve to force food stamp recipients to do the same?
This post was edited on 6/23/19 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:07 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
physician and MEDICAL staff salaries are a ridiculously small contributor to the explosion in healthcare costs. If anything they are underpaid when you factor in their ever increasing workload and responsibilities. Fewer and fewer people are entering healthcare (actual healthcare not administrative bullshite) in relation to the population. It takes roughly 10+ years of school/training to become a doctor and people think cutting salaries is going to help provide healthcare to more people?
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:12 pm to Smart Post
Because one pays for the food and the other doesn't?
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:18 pm to AaronDeTiger
Having a federal mandate on school lunches means that there's no flexibility for healthy and active kids to get bigger portions to provide them with the energy to make it through the day. It's a parenting problem that can't be solved by a centralized plan for all kids in 50 different areas of the country. It's dumb as frick on the surface.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:41 pm to Smart Post
quote:
If the answer is to force food stamp recipients to eat only healthy foods, then they will throw it in the trash and go hungry
If they are dumb enough to do that then let them and let them starve.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:43 pm to RebelExpress38
quote:
Many of our healthcare issues would go away if we actually treated the root cause
This x1000
Posted on 6/23/19 at 3:43 pm to Smart Post
quote:
Michelle Obama tried to make free school lunches healthier but Trump pulled the plug on it.
Dumbest post of the day!
ETA:
quote:
Smart Post
Doesn't check out.
This post was edited on 6/23/19 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 4:25 pm to Smart Post
quote:
Why are you arguing with me?
Because your statement was very selective and not wholly accurate.
The fed gov doesnt really belong in the business of school lunches, but for a noble effort, I might not disagree with the Fed gov making sure there are at least healthy options provided to students (esp if their district uses Fed funding).
But this is largely a local issue, and why we have local governments.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 4:35 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Who redpilled wapo?
Posted on 6/23/19 at 4:39 pm to DrunkerThanThou
150% - the increase in the number of physicians.
3200% - the increase in the number of healthcare administrators.
Bundling these groups together as "healthcare workers" helps obscure the problem.
3200% - the increase in the number of healthcare administrators.
Bundling these groups together as "healthcare workers" helps obscure the problem.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 5:04 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The single biggest thing we can do is cut administrative costs. We can still pay doctors and nurses well under a medicare for all system. Way too much money is spent on HR people at work and on health insurance company staff whose job it is to screw us over and make us take the cheapest care available.
This post was edited on 6/23/19 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 5:07 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
our hospitals are now constructed around private- or semi-private rooms with intensive electronic monitoring of patient status, and we can’t convert them to space-saving, labor-economizing open wards
We could go to field hospitals like WW2? That would save money
Posted on 6/23/19 at 5:35 pm to Smart Post
quote:
Y'all weren't willing to make them eat it or starve with school lunches (because it was an Obama idea?), what makes you have the resolve to force food stamp recipients to do the same?
This can't be a serious question. We would like for k8ds to stay in school. Most of us would like for SNAP recipients to get jobs and support themselves. Our obligations to the two groups are quite different.
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