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re: Trump: You don't start a War with someone 20 times your size and then expect missiles
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:40 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
If Ukraine could back up the clock 4yrs, I'd virtually guarantee there'd be no war
I think you are wrong about that. You are giving the people who made that decision way too much credit suggesting that it was a mistake.
1
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:41 pm to NC_Tigah
If Russia installed a puppet government in Mexico, started investing heavily in the area, and made it obvious they were angling for Mexico to join Brics………
I would say we would be good to intervene in Mexico militarily.
I would say we would be good to intervene in Mexico militarily.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:42 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
Better scenario you and the wife are divorced (you are Ukraine wife is Russia). Your at the bar flirting with other women which you know might agitate your ex wife. She then comes in the bar and punches you and threatens the woman you flirted with. Who is at fault? The woman you're flirting with, you or your ex?
You are focused on "fault" as if it's a subjective, fairness question.
If it wasn't a punch and instead was a gunshot, and you knew it was likely to happen, you would be wise to take actions to prevent it.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:43 pm to moneyg
quote:Nah. I think the same would be said of Russia, frankly. Putin thought he'd be dining in Kyiv by April of 2022. There were many miscalculations.
If Ukraine could back up the clock 4yrs, I'd virtually guarantee there'd be no war
----
I think you are wrong about that. You are giving the people who made that decision way too much credit suggesting that it was a mistake.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:48 pm to Monahans
quote:But the Ukrainian Bros say the US, unlike Russia, is entitled to a sphere of influence, because .... well .... just because.
I would say we would be good to intervene in Mexico militarily.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:48 pm to Mason Dixon Swine
quote:
It's all lies in plain site for this cult.
This would be poignant but for you freaks told us Biden didn’t have dementia. Piss off.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:49 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
You seem to think Ukraine isn't a sovereign nation and is beholden to their neighbors. That's just not true unless there are treaties saying so. There can be history but that doesn't come with obligations to never change....
Ukraine has no ability to enforce its sovereignty when it comes to Russia. That's the point.
Ukraine being "in the right" is meaningless except to the extent that it impacts how it can enforce it. If it meant that the rest of the world was willing to stand up and help Ukraine defend itself, then it would have been a logical decision to make.
Instead, it meant a part of the world was willing to temporarily fund its defense but that funding was going to be short lived. And, the natural conclusion of that decision has been the death of hundreds of thousands (at best) Ukrainians, the destruction of a country in large part, and the evacuation of millions of its citizens...all to be faced with a lesser option of diplomacy 4 years later.
Fairness doesn't set lines on a map. Wars do. That's been proven throughout history.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:50 pm to Mason Dixon Swine
You mean into Donetsk and Luhansk, who were in a civil war with Ukraine to separate from Ukraine as Ukraine cluster bombed their civilians?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:51 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:Can you cite a source or is this simply regurgitated hearsay?
But he did order the slaughter of multi-generational ethnic Russian’s living in Ukraine.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:05 pm to moneyg
quote:
Ukraine has no ability to enforce its sovereignty when it comes to Russia. That's the point.
That's where you moved the goal post too. If your point is Russia is a bully who can take what they want if allowed then i agree. If as this thread mentions we're talking about who started the war it's easy, Russia.
quote:
Fairness doesn't set lines on a map. Wars do. That's been proven throughout history.
Sure, hence you have situations like displacing Palestinians with Israelis. It wasn't fair but it's what happened and no one was in a position to argue.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:10 pm to Abikaasa_Posti_Teel
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:11 pm to moneyg
quote:
Ukraine has no ability to enforce its sovereignty when it comes to Russia. That's the point.
If we play the "we can't start WW3" card, then literally nobody has that ability when it comes to Russia.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:12 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Shut up, Zelenskyy was installed by our Deep State and everybody with a brain knows it
If that were true, Trump would know it, and would be calling out the US government for starting the war. He's blaming Zelensky, so either way he's wrong in assigning blame.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If we play the "we can't start WW3" card, then literally nobody has that ability when it comes to Russia.
Correct. Deterrence requires leaving all cards on the table. Otherwise, it's no better than Obama's red lines.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If we play the "we can't start WW3" card, then literally nobody has that ability when it comes to Russia.
What's your point?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:21 pm to moneyg
quote:
What's your point?
If we play the "we can't start WW3" card, then literally nobody has that ability when it comes to Russia.
Russia could invade Texas and if the "we can't start WW3" card is played, then we have to suck that dick just like Ukraine did.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:24 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
Correct. Deterrence requires leaving all cards on the table. Otherwise, it's no better than Obama's red lines.
That needed to happen 3 years ago. Your leadership didn't do that. Instead, it encouraged and funded the war.
Own those decisions. The reality of the situation today is based in large part on those really bad decision made by the Biden admin.
To use your analogy, you don't hold the cards you pretend you do. You've played the had poorly and you are now being forced to fold and save the rest of your stack for another time or giving it all away by bluffing.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:46 pm to Bard
quote:
Russia has no more say over Ukraine joining NATO than the US has over Cuba joining BRICS.
I enjoy your posts but I think this one you missed a bit. BRICS is economic in nature, NATO is military.
No American should think that it is unreasonable for a country to not want their direct neighbor to be armed with weapons pointed at them. This would have been the end result of Ukraine in NATO.
The US has already set this precedent in the 60s with the Cuban Missile Crisis. I struggle to find a better analogy but perhaps you can..
Posted on 4/14/25 at 3:50 pm to moneyg
quote:
To use your analogy, you don't hold the cards you pretend you do. You've played the had poorly and you are now being forced to fold and save the rest of your stack for another time or giving it all away by bluffing.
A better analogy for your position is holding a straight flush to 9 and folding because you're worried they're holding a royal flush.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 4:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Ukraine itself literally has that ability, excepting the Eastern Oblasts and Crimea. Certainly Europe, China, etc. have that ability.
... then literally nobody has that ability when it comes to Russia.
Juxtapose that fact with the idiotic premise that Ukraine's eastern borderlands are somehow worth incineration of the entire Northern Hemisphere, obviously inclusive of all of Ukraine. Any nonemotional, rational person would say the latter outcome, or any risk of it is is cretinous, to be kind.
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