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Started By
Message
re: Trump: You don't start a War with someone 20 times your size and then expect missiles
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:09 pm to Penrod
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:09 pm to Penrod
quote:
Your implication that not actively avoided the war is tantamount to starting it is baloney.
If I do things that I know will agitate my wife to the point that she will blow up on me, is that tantamount to starting a fight with her?
It’s not that we/they should have bent over backwards to placate Putin. It’s that we did things for decades knowing we were crossing lines for him. The history of this is well-documented.
3
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:16 pm to Penrod
quote:That was the implication you took.
Your implication that not actively avoided the war is tantamount to starting it is baloney.
The implication actually issued is that Ukraine could have avoided the war. If Ukraine could back up the clock 4yrs, I'd virtually guarantee there'd be no war. Further, if Ukraine could back it up 12yrs, Crimea would still be a Ukrainian oblast. It is what it is.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:19 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
If I do things that I know will agitate my wife to the point that she will blow up on me, is that tantamount to starting a fight with her?
This is a bad example it assumes Ukraine and Russia were in a relationship
Better scenario you and the wife are divorced (you are Ukraine wife is Russia). Your at the bar flirting with other women which you know might agitate your ex wife. She then comes in the bar and punches you and threatens the woman you flirted with. Who is at fault? The woman you're flirting with, you or your ex?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:19 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
Maybe we had a five year agreement with the other guy. Maybe Zelenskyy was a better fit for the war they were causing.
Again, there are many many possible reasons they might have wanted a new puppet.
If you believe zelensky was installed by us, then how do you reconcile that fact with whom the administration was at the time this occurred?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:20 pm to Abikaasa_Posti_Teel
Revise history much? Zelensky was elected in 2019. He wasn't installed by Nuland& Co in 2014.....that was Poroshenko who was then made legit by a vote later that year.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:21 pm to Penrod
quote:No sir!
Another load of bullshite.
Sorry! But that, in association with Merkle's phoney Minsk Accords, was a definitive contributor in the war run up.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:24 pm to Abikaasa_Posti_Teel
quote:
our govt took out the sitting Pres and installed Z as Pres. so I guess we started it in reality.
This is what I've been screaming since 2016 when my friends in the National Guard were sent to Ukraine to "train Ukrainians to fight Russians". I was like ke, "Why? They're not at war."
Soonafter, Trump was elected and the war plans were set back. Then Biden was fraudulently installed and Russia saw a moment of weakness and made their move. They were basically not given much choice but to react. NATO was already on their western doorstep and operating with unabated impunity. I'd have made my move too.
I get downvoted to shite every time I say it on here, but the US and the western world 100% started the war. The Russians just took the first formal military action.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:25 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
This is a bad example it assumes Ukraine and Russia were in a relationship Better scenario you and the wife are divorced (you are Ukraine wife is Russia). Your at the bar flirting with other women which you know might agitate your ex wife. She then comes in the bar and punches you and threatens the woman you flirted with. Who is at fault? The woman you're flirting with, you or your ex?
Countries are lines on maps. Neighboring countries are always in a relationship.
This post was edited on 4/14/25 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:26 pm to John Barron
Why can't Trump be honest and admit Putin started the war?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:28 pm to L1C4
quote:Because it won't get Putin to peacetalks.
Why can't Trump be honest and admit Putin started the war?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:29 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
Countries are lines on maps. Neighboring countries are always in a relationship.
Borders are lines on a map. Countries are governments with sovereign authority to represent their citizens interests globally.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:30 pm to oklahogjr
Pedantry means you’ve lost the argument.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:31 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
If I do things that I know will agitate my wife to the point that she will blow up on me, is that tantamount to starting a fight with her?
If she shoots you in the face, is she not responsible for shooting you in the face?
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:31 pm to L1C4
quote:
Why can't Trump be honest and admit Putin started the war?
He literally said exactly that. Y’all are being played by that one sound bite.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:32 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
If she shoots you in the face, is she not responsible for shooting you in the face?
Yes.
Now you answer my question with a yes or no.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:35 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
Pedantry means you’ve lost the argument.
No minor details aren't the problem. your entire statement and retort was incorrect.
You seem to think Ukraine isn't a sovereign nation and is beholden to their neighbors. That's just not true unless there are treaties saying so. There can be history but that doesn't come with obligations to never change....
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:36 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
Now you answer my question with a yes or no.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:39 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
It’s worse than that. The “start a war” comment was a throwaway hypothetical.
I swear people didn’t read what he actually said.
The actual contention Trump made is that Ukraine and the Biden administration could have prevented it and didn’t.
Furthermore, he explicitly stated that Putin started the war: “that’s a war that should never have been allowed to start. Biden could have stopped it and Zelenskyy could have stopped it and Putin should never have started it.”
Exactly.
They don't want to discuss the actual issue or the actual point being made. They can't win that argument. They want to parse the words he used to argue something that they think they can win.
Trump's point is 100% valid. And, its is extremely on point with respect to how Ukraine has found itself in the position it has found itself in, and what it can reasonably do to get itself out of that position.
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:39 pm to Penrod
Posted on 4/14/25 at 2:40 pm to oklahogjr
quote:
No minor details aren't the problem. your entire statement and retort was incorrect. You seem to think Ukraine isn't a sovereign nation and is beholden to their neighbors
I don’t know what you’re implying with “beholden to their neighbors”. I was replying to a guy who said Ukraine and Russia aren’t “in a relationship” and therefore my hypothetical was a bad example.
It’s preposterous to claim Russia and Ukraine don’t have a relationship. Even if they didn’t have ethnic and historical ties, their mere proximity would mean they’d have to be cognizant of each others likely reactions to provocation.
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