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Started By
Message
re: Trump co-defendant Jenna Ellis enters plea deal in Georgia case
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:14 pm to BBONDS25
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:14 pm to BBONDS25
every nation that holds elections puts people in jail who break laws related to elections, Bonds. If they don't, THEN they end up with fascism or its various cousins.
3
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:22 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
You also know this is just not true.
Saying "you know this is/is not true" does not make it true. It is possible, though unlikely, that making that statement in Court was a secret part of her plea deal (secret in that it doesn't appear in written plea deal).
But certainly no one forced her to say anything in the Bar proceeding. It is not expensive to defend yourself before the bar. If she was telling the truth in 2020, she should have just proven it.
quote:
This was the plan the entire time. Dismiss the concerns about the election by prosecuting the opposition. Threaten their lives and careers, then tell them if they admit there was no issues with the election they get a slap on the wrist and go their merry way.
Except they aren't "going their merry way", they have to testify at trial. And according to you they will come back and commit perjury at trial to save their own skin.
quote:
That is precisely what happened and every single person here knows that. You simply choose to be ok with it because of your party affiliation.
There you go again with your favorite argument technique: "You know I'm right". I do not have a party affiliation. My primary interest in all of this is the legal wrangling. You think I'm supporting the prosecution just because we have a difference of opinion on what's going on. You should see what I post on more liberal boards.
quote:
It's facism
Or, bear with me here, maybe it is fascism to knowingly lie about an election being fraudulent and rigged, and try to convince public officials to reverse Democratic election results.
quote:
Every defense attorney that has had a client lie to them shall be prosecuted!
Every attorney has a duty to ensure that false statements are not presented to the Court. Defense attorneys have to do their best to investigate the veracity of their witnesses.
In the attorney allows false information to be presented, it is contempt of Court, which is punishable as a crime. It is also unethical and will result in bar discipline.
quote:
You’re making a leap without support. Trusting co-counsel would rarely be described as remaining willfully ignorant.
If my co-counseel was going in front of a legislative body and making specific statements including numerical representations, I would absolutely make sure we had the evidence to back it up.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:24 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
You also know this is just not true.
Saying "you know this is/is not true" does not make it true. It is possible, though unlikely, that making that statement in Court was a secret part of her plea deal (secret in that it doesn't appear in written plea deal).
But certainly no one forced her to say anything in the Bar proceeding. It is not expensive to defend yourself before the bar. If she was telling the truth in 2020, she should have just proven it.
quote:
This was the plan the entire time. Dismiss the concerns about the election by prosecuting the opposition. Threaten their lives and careers, then tell them if they admit there was no issues with the election they get a slap on the wrist and go their merry way.
Except they aren't "going their merry way", they have to testify at trial. And according to you they will come back and commit perjury at trial to save their own skin.
quote:
That is precisely what happened and every single person here knows that. You simply choose to be ok with it because of your party affiliation.
There you go again with your favorite argument technique: "You know I'm right". I do not have a party affiliation. My primary interest in all of this is the legal wrangling. You think I'm supporting the prosecution just because we have a difference of opinion on what's going on. You should see what I post on more liberal boards.
I can assure you I was not at all supportive of Hillary in 2016, and I hoped her claims of Russian interference were untrue.
quote:
It's facism
Or, bear with me here, maybe it is fascism to knowingly lie about an election being fraudulent and rigged, and try to convince public officials to reverse Democratic election results.
quote:
Every defense attorney that has had a client lie to them shall be prosecuted!
Every attorney has a duty to ensure that false statements are not presented to the Court. Defense attorneys have to do their best to investigate the veracity of their witnesses.
If the attorney allows false information to be presented, it is contempt of Court, which is punishable as a crime. It is also unethical and will result in bar discipline.
quote:
You’re making a leap without support. Trusting co-counsel would rarely be described as remaining willfully ignorant.
If my co-counseel was going in front of a legislative body and making specific statements including numerical representations, I would absolutely make sure we had the evidence to back it up. And if it turned out my co-counseel was lying, I would expect to receive the same punishment as them.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:24 pm to TigerDoc
We had people on here this week posting Tweets about the 96,000 mail in ballots from a Twitter account that posts BS all the time and when I told them that they down voted away. Its amazing what people will believe on here just because it is posted on Twitter. Just about everything regarding the fraud in Georgia has been debunked yet people on here still parrot it 
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:37 pm to ronricks
quote:
We had people on here this week posting Tweets about the 96,000 mail in ballots from a Twitter account that posts BS all the time and when I told them that they down voted away. Its amazing what people will believe on here just because it is posted on Twitter. Just about everything regarding the fraud in Georgia has been debunked yet people on here still parrot it
Identity-reinforcing information is pretty incorrigible in the age of social media, and I think it's part of the reason they cooked up such a ballsy plan. People are siloed and dug in on their trust networks.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:38 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
every nation that holds elections puts people in jail who break laws related to elections, Bonds. If they don't, THEN they end up with fascism or its various cousins.
Good grief you are such a moron and clown
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:40 pm to TigerDoc
This post-2020 Election stuff has been fascinating (and scary)
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:40 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
every nation that holds elections puts people in jail who break laws related to elections,
The issue here, and I know you don’t believe this, is that no crime was committed. The state is holding jail over thes defendants heads and telling them they will let them off if they admit they were wrong.
In contract law it would be called coercion and it would vitiate the contract. The state is corruptly prosecuting political opposition to force them to say what they want. And you support it.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:44 pm to BBONDS25
Agreed, Bonds.
I love “this is a threat to our democracy and it is worse than 9/11!”
Then, accept a plea of guilty for conspiracy to submit a fraudulent document. No jail.
Pathetic
I love “this is a threat to our democracy and it is worse than 9/11!”
Then, accept a plea of guilty for conspiracy to submit a fraudulent document. No jail.
Pathetic
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:45 pm to Dday63
quote:
But certainly no one forced her to say anything in the Bar proceeding.
Take a guess as to the political makeup of the disciplinary committee and Supreme Court of Colorado. (Hint: all 7 were appointed by Democrats).
quote:
Except they aren't "going their merry way", they have to testify at trial. And according to you they will come back and commit perjury at trial to save their own skin.
It certainly beats facing 5 years.
quote:
Every attorney has a duty to ensure that false statements are not presented to the Court. Defense attorneys have to do their best to investigate the veracity of their witnesses.
Trusting co-counsel is a very normal action in courts around the country every single day.
quote:
If my co-counseel was going in front of a legislative body and making specific statements including numerical representations, I would absolutely make sure we had the evidence to back it up.
Ooooh. Lying to a legislative body. Would this be a good time to bring up equal application of the law?
This post was edited on 10/24/23 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:55 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
It's a felony, Bonds. Can she practice law again with that?
Politico is reporting that part of the deal was an agreement that crime was not one of moral turpitude
LINK
She may try to use that to save the license. She will have to report the crime within 14 days and with felonies, it is a show cause to the Colorado Supreme Court
ETA. Michael Teter has indicated he will file a new complaint against her in Colorado NYT. Her censure was based on tv and Twitter statements so Colorado doesn’t appear to have dealt with the statements to the GA legislature. Censure opinion
This post was edited on 10/24/23 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 10/24/23 at 2:56 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
She was a lawyer knowingly presenting false information for the purpose of overturning an election.
You said yourself in quoting her that she did not know the information was false at the time. I’m still not sure it’s false.
She did not commit a crime. Had 5 years held over her head….and kissed the ring. Coercion is a defense in all types of law…unfortunately not when the state threatens you, though.
This post was edited on 10/24/23 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:02 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Exactly. Unsupervised probation is literally nothing.
You went from guessing it might be unsupervised to suggesting it was, did you happen upon other information?
While it could be unsupervised* Georgia rarely allows unsupervised probation in sentences longer than 1 maybe 2 years. They also are less likely to allow it when the probation is transferred to another state. I assume Ellis doesn't plan to stay in GA for the next 5 years.
* even with supervised probation it really has a lot to do with your PO. Most POs do an individual assessment and give non-violent first offenders a lot longer leash with fewer home visits and more lax reporting requirements. I had a corporate client a few years ago who was on paper in GA with 4 years of probation for a shoplifting "misunderstanding" (dude makes over $8 million a year in comp??) and his biggest issue was constantly having to go in to get travel approved.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:06 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
While it could be unsupervised* Georgia rarely allows unsupervised probation in sentences longer than 1 maybe 2 years. They also are less likely to allow it when the probation is transferred to another state. I assume Ellis doesn't plan to stay in GA for the next 5 years.
I’m not licensed in Georgia , so I will defer to you. But The statute allows for a $1000 fine OR 1-5 years. I don’t think they are interested in her anymore. They got the taking point they wanted. Everyone is now saying all of her arguments were lies. My guess is She will pay her fine and supervised will become unsupervised.
quote:
had a corporate client a few years ago who was on paper in GA with 4 years of probation for a shoplifting "misunderstanding" (dude makes over $8 million a year in comp??)
Why did he plead if it was a misunderstanding?
This post was edited on 10/24/23 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:39 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
In contract law it would be called coercion and it would vitiate the contract. The state is corruptly prosecuting political opposition to force them to say what they want. And you support it.
You claim to have been to a prosecutor, so you know RICO cases operate differently. They start with the minor participants, like the Bail Bondsman in this case, and work their way up, with the earlier cooperators getting better deals than later ones (first couple didn't get felonies here, but the latter did).
And DDay is right on. This was a willful ignorance situation (at best) on Ellis's part. Ultimately, she made the best decision for her. I know it's not what you or Trump would have preferred like Manafort and Stone standing strong a few years ago, but it is what it is.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:41 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
but it is what it is.
Yes, a political witch hunt. Congrats, I guess.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:45 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
It's a felony, Bonds. Can she practice law again with that?
Ask Kevin Clinesmith, who was convicted of not only a felony, but one that involved defrauding a court.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:49 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
her. I know it's not what you or Trump would have preferred like Manafort and Stone standing strong a few years ago, but it is what it is.
Trump is my preferred candidate. If he isn’t the nominee I will gladly vote for DeSantis. I have zero dog in the hunt except for the obvious political nature of the prosecutions.
quote:
You claim to have been to a prosecutor
For a few years, yes. Which is why I see this for exactly what it is. I’ve convened grand juries and obtained true bills. The facts of this case are so absolutely insane, any honest prosecutor would have passed. I know you disagree. Hell, you even vilify “unindicted co-conspirators”…which are the parties that didn’t even get an indictment. Do you know how easy it is to get an indictment?
This is about politics to you. It’s about corruption of the judicial system to me.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Ask Kevin Clinesmith, who was convicted of not only a felony, but one that involved defrauding a court.
Good point. He lost it for a year. I wonder what the Colorado Supreme Court will do to Ellis.
Posted on 10/24/23 at 3:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Kevin Clinesmith
With Clinesmith, there were findings of long public service, no moral tupitude, and, more important, an isolated incident and not a pattern or practice
Ellis attorney has gotten an agreement of no moral turpitude from Fanis office, but she will be facing Colorado after already being censured for 10 other public statements
Even E Howard Hunt got his license back, but I’d think the peril is greater than a 1 year suspension
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