re: This isn’t a great look for the pentagon. They appear to claim Mormons aren’t Christians

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Wait. He’s JW or he says that?

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He has said those things in his long post history.
I thought he was a Mormon, but the more he posted and the more I cross referenced his references the more I realized that it pointed only at JW.

Not Orthodoxy or 7th day, or Mormon, or Scientologist, only at JW.

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What’s funny is that I believe he said he goes to church and takes his kids

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He's definitely JW.

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all while being a militant atheist.

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Yea that atheist stuff he obviously doesn't believe, it's his out for when he loses an argument.

It's the same pattern:

Lets discuss some weird esoteric religious theories!
Oh you are interested, let me throw you some leads to get you to JW.

Oh you have shut down my arguments, now it's time to tell you I hate God and anyone not an atheist is a fool.

Again and again he runs that pattern.

It's his version of the Toss Dive.

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Yo no comprende

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Yea there's no comprehending him as a consistent persona.

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But do you know the Hebrew words that get translated as “eidolon” in Greek in the Septuagint? The Hebrew transliteration into English is “gillulim” and “elilim” which are literally “shite-gods” and “worthless-gods”.

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Yes. Most of the OT is a polemic against these “gods.”

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Without realizing it you said the worship of Yahweh through divine images is partaking in shite-gods.

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No, that’s a a fair understanding of what I said. Yahweh can’t be worshipped through an idol. It’s like a man in a dress, calling himself a woman. It doesn’t matter what you call something- it matters what it is. If Yahweh explicitly says not to create an idol, and the Israelites do it anyway- it doesn’t matter (as we see) what its intent was for.

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Yahweh commanded the Levites to slaughter their countrymen with the sword. Then after that Yahweh sent a plague. A plague.

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I’m ok with that. I just think it’s interesting that there are discrepancies in translation.

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It’s not plausible and it’s not even possible that the divine plague was the Levites slaughtering with the sword

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I think a reasonable case can be made- if you isolate the text. But, it would be inconsistent with the rest of the story. So I agree.

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in my opinion you made your world view weaker in a kind of ironic situation where you brought evidence to cast more doubt on the historicity of the story

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Fair point. I gladly relinquish defense of that position. It’s of no real value. I’m fine with the current reading. My only point is that there is difficulty- it’s not as straightforward as some other texts.

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Because Yahweh’s actions were unjust and evil

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Those words are worthless if morality is subjective. It’s quite the conundrum.

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he couldn’t want his people worshipping him and praising him 24/7

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This is near the root of your problem- mistaken identity via projection (idolatry). The worship is not for God’s benefit. It’s for ours.

Thats mistaken identity.

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he wouldn’t be an egotistical a-hole

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That’s projection.

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he could certainly take actions to convince people of certain truths and moral actions rather than killing them all

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You assume He doesn’t. You assume the failure is His, and not our (your) own. You assume (omnipresence) that you have the knowledge necessary to make this statement. You assume that killing them was worse than not. For them, and others. You assume A LOT. An assumption is also known as a presupposition- which is the basis of our worldview. Your worldview dictates that physical death is final. So, it makes sense for you to react this way. But, your worldview, and its tenets, are a square peg to the round hole of scripture- they don’t fit.

Narax may be onto something with the JW accusation. You’re not an atheist. No one devotes this much of themselves to a fairy tale.

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I don’t dislike you.

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Likewise.

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you have the innate desire to believe what makes you comfortable (rather than having the desire to believe what is true about our reality)

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So do you. The idea of Christianity being false makes you comfortable. It’s because you have a warped view of Christianity. You probably don’t realize it, but I’m also an atheist of the version of Christianity that you don’t believe in.

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trying to justify all the baby-killing in the Old Testament

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I hear you. But perspective matters just as much as context. There’s no point in explaining the context, to someone with the wrong perspective. These “problems” can only be resolved through an eternal mindset.

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I’m going to share a couple of YouTube links with you. Fair warning - they are atheist creations.

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I watched the first one. You (and others) raise valid concerns. As I said, I think perspective is the key here.

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I was killing myself laughing.

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That’s an odd way of say “I was dying laughing.” Anyway, don’t do that, please. Don’t kill yourself laughing.

You know he's like this right now.

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…. - Jeffrey Dahmer

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Mother who stoned sons to death acquitted

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A woman who claimed God ordered her to bash in the heads of her sons was acquitted of all charges by reason of insanity Saturday after a jury determined she did not know right from wrong during the killings.

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ETA: I know I can go tit for tat on implying murder is correlated to belief in the Christian deities or no deity at all. We can talk about how Christianity is over represented by murderers compared to the non-murdering population.

Don’t let idiot become your toadie.


Keep it civilized, as the Jesus of gospels (not the one in Revelation or the OT) would have wanted.

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You know he's like this right now.

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I’d love to see the look on your face when Jesus returns with Jehovah God and wipes that smirk off your face. “Surprise mother fricker! You’ve been practicing idolatry and taking part in pagan festivals and eating blood!” When he comes like a thief in the night smites the shite out of you, then you’ll realize but it’ll be too late!

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I’d love to see the look on your face when Jesus returns with Jehovah God and wipes that smirk off your face. “Surprise mother fricker! You’ve been practicing idolatry and taking part in pagan festivals and eating blood!” When he comes like a thief in the night smites the shite out of you, then you’ll realize but it’ll be too late!

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I don't think that profanity and vulgarities will be involved in that conversation, SM.

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Yes. Most of the OT is a polemic against these “gods.”

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My point is that by saying engaging in the worship of Yahweh using divine images is idolatry, you are saying using divine images is engaging in shite-gods. Because that’s what idolatry means. I’m sure you don’t mean that Yahweh is a shite-god, so you might want to come up with a different term than idolatry.

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Yahweh can’t be worshipped through an idol.

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This was the standard method of Yahweh worship and invoking Yahweh for a thousand years. Golden bulls, standing stones, statues, figurines, and the ark of the covenant were objects of divine imagery believed to have the power to invoke or channel their deity. Do you remember what Yahweh told Moses to put on the ark? Cherubim ring a bell? Last I checked that would violate the strict wording of the commandments. The cover of the ark was called the mercy seat and was considered the throne of Yahweh.

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I just think it’s interesting that there are discrepancies in translation.

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I’ll take that as an admission that the slaughter of the 3000 and the successive plague were two instances of Yahweh’s mass killings of his chosen people.

Would a living god do that? Do you consider yourself a loving father? Would you strike dead your child when the didn’t brush their teeth the instant you told them to to set an example for your other kids, while commanding your other kid to kill one brother and one sister? You don’t have to believe in this sick religion. You are smarter than that.

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This is near the root of your problem- mistaken identity via projection (idolatry). The worship is not for God’s benefit. It’s for ours.

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This sounds really bad and not well thought out, or maybe I’m not understanding. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you can explain further?

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he wouldn’t be an egotistical a-hole

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That’s projection.

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That’s not very nice, nor is it true. I’ll give you the other cheek though.

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Those words are worthless if morality is subjective. It’s quite the conundrum.

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Sorry bud, but morality is relative and subjective. Did you want the video link I sent you?

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You assume He doesn’t. You assume the failure is His, and not our (your) own. You assume (omnipresence) that you have the knowledge necessary to make this statement. You assume that killing them was worse than not. For them, and others. You assume A LOT

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The dude mucked up Eden and then had to destroy the earth in a flood and then he repented. I don’t have to assume. It’s what the Bible says happened. The god character in the bible is one failure after another, constantly involved in evil, states he creates evil, and brags he killed Israelites and made them sacrifice their children in the fire. Brags. It’s sick, and you can turn away from that nonsense if you want.

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Narax may be onto something with the JW accusation. You’re not an atheist. No one devotes this much of themselves to a fairy tale.

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Yeah and you guys are atheists. No one takes this much time to evangelize and argue with non believers.

Hey I have a book, that says there are no true believers of the Christian God. It says everyone is a poser and they know in reality there is no God. And I know that it 100% truthful and accurate because the book says that it is.

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I hear you. But perspective matters just as much as context. There’s no point in explaining the context, to someone with the wrong perspective. These “problems” can only be resolved through an eternal mindset.

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If baby killing is wrong, unless God says to kill babies, then objectively the morality of baby killing is subjective. Killing babies is neither objectively right or wrong, but dependent on the circumstance. I don’t know where you get the idea of objective morality in the Bible. Nothing of the sort is contained within it.

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I watched the first one. You (and others) raise valid concerns. As I said, I think perspective is the key here.

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Awesome. Hey I’ll watch any 10-15 minute video you want me to watch and if you want, I’ll comment on it. I do think your perspective comment is weak.

Think about it. This atheist is defending the mass slaughter of innocent babies and the raping if young girls. Your prideful world view says it was moral and righteous to slaughter those babies. You can reject that evil, man. I think you are better than apologizing for evil.

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A woman who claimed God ordered her to bash in the heads of her sons was acquitted of all charges by reason of insanity

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Well duh! How’s this supposed to be a tit for tat? She’s doing Christianity all wrong and Dahmer was doing atheism perfectly.

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We can talk about how Christianity is over represented by murderers compared to the non-murdering population.

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What benefit would that provide? Let’s talk about how it looks when you actually follow each of our worldviews to their logical end.

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Don’t let idiot become your toadie.

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You don’t have to be friends with my friends in order to be my friend. He did hammer you pretty good though.

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Keep it civilized,

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Always! I try to keep it respectful. But I feel like you and I can joke with each other. I treat you the way I treat my friends. Your skin is (barely) thick enough.

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as the Jesus of gospels (not the one in Revelation or the OT) would have wanted.

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Nice jab. But it missed. I’m not arguing revelation with a JW!

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My god...

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To reiterate.

And again, no atheist has ever spoken that way.

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Listen, Pal !! It's clear from Scripture that He uses a stern and fatherly tone of voice with no vulgarities as He scolds you.

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Sorry, I have to imagine that when he commands the Israelites to slaughter innocent people, like when they stoned to death all of Achan’s wives, sons, daughters, and animals after he didn’t give all the silver and gold loot he found at Jericho to the priests, that Jehovah might have used some language that wasn’t very nice and polite.