re: This isn’t a great look for the pentagon. They appear to claim Mormons aren’t Christians

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question, when Paul was writing the epistles do you think he considered himself a Christian?

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I don’t think that term existed at the time of Paul. If he would have considered himself anything it might have been a Jewish man, a “brother of the Lord”, who was a follower of “the way” of the Lord who was correctly worshipping the Lord and the God - a restoration of the faith the the Persians and temple authorities corrupted (in Paul’s eyes).

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second. Was Paul the founder of Christianity?

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There’s a spectrum. The Dead Sea scrolls community - I would call them pre-Christian. Philo of Alexandria too I’d call pre-Christian. The main thing they didn’t have yet was the final atonement sacrifice of their Lord that they already believed was the Logos of the God.

Paul clearly states in his epistles there were people “in Christ” before him. So he definitely didn’t think he started the movement. Had it not been for Paul though, Christianity might have been a tiny footnote in history of superstitious Jews creating a mystery religion as with all the other Mediterranean mystery cults. He planted the seeds in the Greek world for the religion to be spread. You could say something similar for the “heretic” Markion of Sinope who was the ringleader of the sect of Christianity that spread Paul’s teachings far and wide throughout the Mediterranean but most strongly in the upper Levant and Asia Minor.

Without Paul’s epistles, the gospel authors would not have had source texts for them to build their myths.

So Paul didn’t start it but without Paul, the west would probably be filled with temples and sanctuaries to Jupiter and Saturn. And Uranus.

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There was quite abit of oral tradition going on back then.

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That’s plausible, but there’s no way to know what was spreading and how much and how often.

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Would they have needed source text from Paul?

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I’m convinced based a a few things. Paul is writing about “real” events he became privy to by reinterpreting Jewish scriptures (finding hidden messages or meanings) and through divine visions/dreams/hallucinations. He writes that he didn’t get anything from any man - that his gospel is not man’s gospel. Obviously I think he was either a charlatan or simply nuts, but if we take him at his word, his only sources are the Jewish scriptures but not necessarily the canon of books that became the modern Hebrew bible.

Paul wrote decades before Mark was written. Paul’s letters were copied and spread, but we don’t know at what rate. Scholars also think there’s a good chance Mark might have been the first gospel that survived (gospel of the earthly Jesus). Paul didn’t believe Jesus had ever been on earth, but that the Lord Jesus’ coming was a future event. The death, burial, resurrection sequence in Mark mirrors Paul’s epistles. The Last Supper in Mark is just about copied from the Lord’s supper in 1 Cor 15.

I think Mark was perfectly making a fictional mythical tale that insiders would know the truth that Jesus hadn’t been on earth yet. But even if you think “Mark” or whomever wrote it (it doesn’t claim to have an author or to have even been written by witnesses or after having interviewed eyewitnesses or anyone who knew anyone who was there) was writing a historical event, he likely would have had copies of Paul handy to make sure he got it “right”.

It’s not a fringe position to say that Mark used Paul’s letters, and you can still be a Christian or a Catholic or even a Mormon and still believe Mark used Paul as a source.

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question, when Paul was writing the epistles do you think he considered himself a Christian?

I don’t think that term existed at the time of Paul. If he would have considered himself anything it might have been a Jewish man.

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wrong...when did you ever read the bible?

Acts 11:Intro Peter's defense -- The gospel preached in Phenice, Cyprus, and Antioch -- The disciples called Christians -- They send relief to the brethren in Judea.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Romans 12:Intro God's mercies move us to serve him -- Unity of the church -- Christian duties enjoined.

1 Corinthians 9:Intro The minister to live by the gospel -- The Christian race.

Ephesians 6:Intro The duty of children, and servants -- Our life a warfare -- The armor of Christian.

Philippians 4:Intro The Book of life -- Exhortations and admonitions -- Christ the strength of the Christian.

1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

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wrong...when did you ever read the bible?

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Ailsa

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You falsely attributed the word “Christian” to these verses/chapters. No such words exist in there.
You

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Romans 12:Intro God's mercies move us to serve him -- Unity of the church -- Christian duties enjoined. 1 Corinthians 9:Intro The minister to live by the gospel -- The Christian race. Ephesians 6:Intro The duty of children, and servants -- Our life a warfare -- The armor of Christian. Philippians 4:Intro The Book of life -- Exhortations and admonitions -- Christ the strength of the Christian.

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I assume you are a dullard of some sort. Not even piles of shite like Narax would agree with you. Sucks to be you.

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Sure, about 70-100 years after his supposed death according to the canonical gospels.

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Go read the bible...you have been wrong on every point.

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They are in the bible which you evidently have not read.

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Ok then quote the exact verse and the English text of the whole verse.

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Ok then quote the exact verse and the English text of the whole verse.

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Go look it up...it's not necessary to continue to spoon feed you. You are believing text that is not in the bible which is the true "myth" and false doctrine.

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You’ve got to be a bot.

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No, I just pulled up the end of this conversation and read that comment. Anyone who would state that Paul did not believe that Jesus ever came to earth hasn’t read any of his letters. That is just nonsense. It is so far off base that it is pointless to participate any further or to read the thread.

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Well don’t read this reply because you’ll be disappointed. Paul never once mentioned Jesus being born to parents on earth, in any city, under any circumstance, or born out of a vagina at all.

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Okay, taking the bait here. So Paul traveling with two of the gospel writers, calling himself a Christian, and submitting to the leaders at the Church Council of Jerusalem was just an exception he made about his beliefs.

There is nothing worse than someone who knows very little, and misstates facts, portraying themself as an expert. What you are stating is as ridiculous as if I were to state that Einstein didn’t believe in the conservation of mass or energy. It is ignorance with the intent to deceive others.