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re: This isn’t a great look for the pentagon. They appear to claim Mormons aren’t Christians
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:30 pm to Ramblin Wreck
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:30 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
It is ignorance with the intent to deceive others.
Yup, you nailed it.
This is a throw away persona to him.
He says crazy things intending to deceive others, then again and again he drops a term or two about "if only you knew" that leads to JW websites.
He has no desire to defend his own beliefs, he jumps from random attack to random attack.
That's why he gets so angry when his actual religion gets called out, because it messes with his mission.
0
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:31 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
Okay, taking the bait here. So Paul traveling with two of the gospel writers, calling himself a Christian, and submitting to the leaders at the Church Council of Jerusalem was just an exception he made about his beliefs.
Are you going to quote the scriptural references to Paul calling himself a Christian or can we end this charade?
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:45 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Are you going to quote the scriptural references to Paul calling himself a Christian or can we end this charade?
There are no records of George Washington or founding fathers specifically calling themselves citizens of the US, so obviously they considered themselves British citizens even after the revolution through the remainder of their lives.
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:47 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
can we end this charade?
You first door knocker.
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 6/12/26 at 7:52 pm to Narax
Posted on 6/12/26 at 8:11 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote]Didn’t all the Israelites witness[/quote]
Yes. But you are missing the point. Their actions are rebellious- either way. I don’t expect you to understand. These things are spiritually discerned, and you’re spiritually dead:
1 Corinthians 2:14 NET
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(Have you checked out the NET translation? I think you’d like it. It has over 600,000 notes on the meanings of words Greek/hebrew) and why the translators made their choices in translation. I have it in the Logos app. Tons of resources.)
No offense, but I think you have hard time grasping the concept that, just like the Israelites in the Exodus narrative- christians (not all, but enough- just like we’ll see in the Golden Calf incident), from day one till the present, have been witnessing the power of God; firsthand, in an undeniable and life-changing fashion, and then immediately reverting back to our old ways at the first sign of trouble. . So yes, I 100% can see a small portion of the Israelites (usually influenced by foreigners) abandoning Yahweh and Moses after 40 days of his absence.
They were scared of not having a god to lead them- as they make clear:
32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.”
The tone of the verse indicates anxiety; panic- not fear of Yahweh. They didn’t ask for Yahweh. They ordered Aaron to make them gods. Jewish tradition holds that Hur (who had a significant role in the story, but seems to have vanished from scripture after 24:14, where he was left in charge with Aaron) was killed by the rebellious Israelites for opposing the fashioning of the golden calf. And that Aaron acquiesced to the demand (of the small minority of rebels) in an attempt to preserve order until Moses returned. I know that’s not captured in scripture (and I’m surprised you’d rather split hairs over idolatry than point out things that give a different account than the Bible). But it’s strange that Hur disappears from the story around that time.
You’re assuming that the Israelites and Aaron are on the same page. They’re clearly not. Why is it that Aaron doesn’t die for creating the calf, but those who worshiped it do?
Do you have the answer key? Or, do you just have really strong opinions- backed by other very strong opinions?
Did some people think so? Maybe. Is it the focus of the passage? I don’t think so. I don’t think it really matters if the idol was intended for worship of Yahweh or other gods- the intent and the result are the same- idolatry. To put it into terms you can understand, it’s like your wife cheating on you because stayed at the camp a day longer than expected and she thought you were dead. Enter Jody.
You’re dealing people that have lived their entire lives as slaves in Egypt, witnessed God’s miraculous power, spent 3 months in the wilderness, got handed a bunch of rules, their leader and only connection to God has disappeared, and those who wanted out saw opportunity. Sounds like a lot of Christians. I’ve been there.
Maybe.
It doesn’t really matter- they’re different shades of lipstick on the same pig. I don’t need to be right about this- it changes nothing. This is not something I’ve been taught to believe. It’s just what I see when I read it. I’m not even saying you’re wrong. Yours is a widely held position. But I think you’re over stating it. I’m willing to admit that the text is (I believe intentionally) ambiguous- why aren’t you? It seems like a weird hill to die on. What do you think is the difference between the two forms of idolatry? What difference does it make and why?
24 So I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off.’ So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf.”
Dindu? Nuffin? Seems like a typical lame excuse for knowingly wrongful behavior. Again, I can see how, in either case, Aaron thought he was doing the right thing (the same cannot be said for the rebellious Israelites). But also in either case, I can’t see how someone given his level of responsibility would have forgotten that Yahweh specifically said not to make an idol. There were consequences.
26 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.’ ” And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell.
Wait- 3000 men? That’s it? So, out of all the people on the exodus from Egypt, only 3000 worshipped the golden calf? Yep. Regardless of how you interpret how many people there were- 3000 is a tiny number. The problem is, you’re not reading it like a fictional story. It means more to you for it to be wrong than it does for me for it to be right. When you watch a movie- do you blame the writers when the bad guy dies? (Are you upset when the bad guy dies?) When a cop saves an innocent life by taking the life of a criminal- do you blame the cop?
I bet you’d answer no to both of those questions. You don’t have a problem with creative license. You don’t have a problem with authority. You don’t have a problem with justice- nor should you. Those are good things. You just don’t trust God
Yes. But you are missing the point. Their actions are rebellious- either way. I don’t expect you to understand. These things are spiritually discerned, and you’re spiritually dead:
1 Corinthians 2:14 NET
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(Have you checked out the NET translation? I think you’d like it. It has over 600,000 notes on the meanings of words Greek/hebrew) and why the translators made their choices in translation. I have it in the Logos app. Tons of resources.)
No offense, but I think you have hard time grasping the concept that, just like the Israelites in the Exodus narrative- christians (not all, but enough- just like we’ll see in the Golden Calf incident), from day one till the present, have been witnessing the power of God; firsthand, in an undeniable and life-changing fashion, and then immediately reverting back to our old ways at the first sign of trouble. . So yes, I 100% can see a small portion of the Israelites (usually influenced by foreigners) abandoning Yahweh and Moses after 40 days of his absence.
quote:
And you’re telling me they weren’t absolutely scared shitless????
They were scared of not having a god to lead them- as they make clear:
32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.”
The tone of the verse indicates anxiety; panic- not fear of Yahweh. They didn’t ask for Yahweh. They ordered Aaron to make them gods. Jewish tradition holds that Hur (who had a significant role in the story, but seems to have vanished from scripture after 24:14, where he was left in charge with Aaron) was killed by the rebellious Israelites for opposing the fashioning of the golden calf. And that Aaron acquiesced to the demand (of the small minority of rebels) in an attempt to preserve order until Moses returned. I know that’s not captured in scripture (and I’m surprised you’d rather split hairs over idolatry than point out things that give a different account than the Bible). But it’s strange that Hur disappears from the story around that time.
quote:
“Hey let’s worship some other gods by saying these totally new/different gods were the ones who delivered us from Egypt but shite let’s have a feast in honor of Yahweh the god we are now rejecting!”
You’re assuming that the Israelites and Aaron are on the same page. They’re clearly not. Why is it that Aaron doesn’t die for creating the calf, but those who worshiped it do?
quote:
your reading of the story is flawed
Do you have the answer key? Or, do you just have really strong opinions- backed by other very strong opinions? quote:
Obviously
quote:
the golden bull was a representative idol used for the worship of Yahweh
Did some people think so? Maybe. Is it the focus of the passage? I don’t think so. I don’t think it really matters if the idol was intended for worship of Yahweh or other gods- the intent and the result are the same- idolatry. To put it into terms you can understand, it’s like your wife cheating on you because stayed at the camp a day longer than expected and she thought you were dead. Enter Jody.
You’re dealing people that have lived their entire lives as slaves in Egypt, witnessed God’s miraculous power, spent 3 months in the wilderness, got handed a bunch of rules, their leader and only connection to God has disappeared, and those who wanted out saw opportunity. Sounds like a lot of Christians. I’ve been there.
quote:
as with the ones at Bethel and Dan in the book of Kings.
Maybe.
It doesn’t really matter- they’re different shades of lipstick on the same pig. I don’t need to be right about this- it changes nothing. This is not something I’ve been taught to believe. It’s just what I see when I read it. I’m not even saying you’re wrong. Yours is a widely held position. But I think you’re over stating it. I’m willing to admit that the text is (I believe intentionally) ambiguous- why aren’t you? It seems like a weird hill to die on. What do you think is the difference between the two forms of idolatry? What difference does it make and why? 24 So I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off.’ So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf.”
Dindu? Nuffin? Seems like a typical lame excuse for knowingly wrongful behavior. Again, I can see how, in either case, Aaron thought he was doing the right thing (the same cannot be said for the rebellious Israelites). But also in either case, I can’t see how someone given his level of responsibility would have forgotten that Yahweh specifically said not to make an idol. There were consequences.
26 And he said to them, “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.’ ” And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell.
Wait- 3000 men? That’s it? So, out of all the people on the exodus from Egypt, only 3000 worshipped the golden calf? Yep. Regardless of how you interpret how many people there were- 3000 is a tiny number. The problem is, you’re not reading it like a fictional story. It means more to you for it to be wrong than it does for me for it to be right. When you watch a movie- do you blame the writers when the bad guy dies? (Are you upset when the bad guy dies?) When a cop saves an innocent life by taking the life of a criminal- do you blame the cop?
I bet you’d answer no to both of those questions. You don’t have a problem with creative license. You don’t have a problem with authority. You don’t have a problem with justice- nor should you. Those are good things. You just don’t trust God
Posted on 6/12/26 at 11:06 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
1 Corinthians 2:14 NET The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Maybe ole Yahweh could have been more convincing, no? You don’t see verses like this of Paul whining that people won’t believe him as a pathetic excuse from a deluded man?
quote:
(Have you checked out the NET translation? I think you’d like it. It has over 600,000 notes on the meanings of words Greek/hebrew) and why the translators made their choices in translation. I have it in the Logos app. Tons of resources.)
It’s decent. I think the NRSV is actually more accurate to the originals, but the NET is still good and you’re right the commentary is perhaps the best.
Here’s a portion of the NET commentary for Isaiah 14:12.
quote:
These verses, which appear to be spoken by other pagan kings to a pagan king (cf. vv. 9-11), contain several titles and motifs that resemble those of Canaanite mythology, including references to Helel son of Shachar, the stars of El, the mountain of assembly, the recesses of Zaphon, and the divine title Most High. Apparently these verses allude to a mythological story about a minor god (Helel son of Shachar) who tried to take over Zaphon, the mountain of the gods. His attempted coup failed, and he was hurled down to the underworld. The king of Babylon is taunted for having similar unrealized delusions of grandeur. Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, “Isaiah,” BKCOT, 1061).
That frick-up Narax would accuse these scholars of being Jehovah’s Witnesses.
You should check out the NET commentaries on Genesis 1:1, Deuteronomy 32:8-9, John 1:1, and Psalm 82:1 as well. Check them out and let me know what you think.
quote:
witnessing the power of God; firsthand, in an undeniable and life-changing fashion, and then immediately reverting back to our old ways at the first sign of trouble. . So yes, I 100% can see a small portion of the Israelites (usually influenced by foreigners) abandoning Yahweh and Moses after 40 days of his absence.
No offense but that is bad apologetics. If you’d have suddenly seen a real divine being who killed a shitload of Egyptians, many of them innocent, and seen the deity in clouds and fire and earthquakes and seen the sea of reeds split, I just don’t buy it that people would say frick it and forget all that after 40 days, knowing that if any of them angered the deity a shitload of them, many innocents, will be killed as punishment.
quote:
32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us.
Take your own advice and look up the NET commentary. Spoiler alert! They asked Aaron to make them an image, and idol, of Yahweh for Yahweh worship.
quote:
Why is it that Aaron doesn’t die for creating the calf, but those who worshiped it do?
Damn PS I don’t know. The plot requires it maybe? Why doesn’t David die for raping Bathsheba and God punishes David by killing his innocent son? What doesn’t Yahweh kill David for conducting the census exactly as he commanded
instead of sending “a very great plague” to kill tens of thousands of Israelite innocents? I don’t fricking know. Yahweh is just an a-hole sometimes. These biblical authors and redactors wanted the general population to be scared shitless if their deity. They wanted them to fear “the Lord”. quote:
Did some people think so? Maybe. Is it the focus of the passage? I don’t think so. I don’t think it really matters if the idol was intended for worship of Yahweh or other gods- the intent and the result are the same- idolatry
Learn something about Canaanite religious practices, divine images, and invoking the present of the deity. You simply don’t know what you don’t know. I know what you don’t know, and I’m trying to help.
quote:
You’re dealing people that have lived their entire lives as slaves in Egypt, witnessed God’s miraculous power, spent 3 months in the wilderness, got handed a bunch of rules, their leader and only connection to God has disappeared, and those who wanted out saw opportunity. Sounds like a lot of Christians. I’ve been there.
I’d like you to find an example of some Christian who was filled with the Holy Spirit and born again and had a religious experience and then 40 days later was worshiping a statue of Zeus or Apollo.
quote:
24 So I said to them, ‘Let any who have gold take it off.’ So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf.” Dindu? Nuffin? Seems like a typical lame excuse for knowingly wrongful behavior
Maybe. But there are Jewish traditions that the golden bull was a miracle and actually made by Yahweh as a test. Look it up.
quote:
And that day about three thousand men of the people fell. Wait- 3000 men? That’s it? So, out of all the people on the exodus from Egypt, only 3000 worshipped the golden calf? Yep. Regardless of how you interpret how many people there were- 3000 is a tiny number.
What about the plague Yahweh also sends at the end of the chapter after he commands the Levites to slaughter the 3000? The text doesn’t say those 3000 were guilty. He sent a plague right after. It doesn’t say how many, but another time in Numbers 16 Yahweh hit the Israelites with another plague that killed 14,700. In numbers 24 he killed 25,000 Israelites with a plague, and for David’s census “crime” Yahweh killed 70,000 innocent Israelites. Let’s average it out and round down to 36,000 - let’s say most likely after the Levites slaughtered 3,000 of their countrymen Yahweh then murdered another 36,000 innocents for good measure.
quote:
When you watch a movie- do you blame the writers when the bad guy dies? (Are you upset when the bad guy dies?) When a cop saves an innocent life by taking the life of a criminal- do you blame the cop?
Don’t stoop to Foo’s level and start telling me all those innocent babies Yahweh commanded the Israelites to murder and genocide were bad guys.
quote:
You don’t have a problem with justice- nor should you
What Yahweh does in the Bible is INjustice plain and simple - a ruthless jealous psychopath and you guys are on your hands and knees worshipping this evil (but imaginary) deity.
quote:
You just don’t trust God
Even if I believed he was real and existed in reality, I would not trust him. I would loathe him. The character of the biblical Yahweh is just sick.
Posted on 6/12/26 at 11:33 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
It is ignorance with the intent to deceive others.
That is that poster's entire purpose. There's no point in engaging with him.
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 11:33 pm
Posted on 6/12/26 at 11:46 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
That frick-up Narax would accuse these scholars of being Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Hmm I've never done that...
Only you.
Possibly because you partially quote people out of context as a cover to attack.
Daniel Wallace would agree with none of your statements. He would agree with mine though.
So the fact that you are wrong and I've accused none of them points even further what an all in Jehovah's Witness you are.
quote:
Even if I believed he was real and existed in reality, I would not trust him. I would loathe him. The character of the biblical Yahweh is just sick.
Yea more fake atheism.
Going to "loathe" someone you think doesn't exist... sounds like more than a case of the tisms...
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 11:53 pm
Posted on 6/12/26 at 11:47 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
That is that poster's entire purpose. There's no point in engaging with him.
It's actually worse than being pointless.
Engaging him just gives him a platform to decieve.
Posted on 6/13/26 at 12:25 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
It's actually worse than being pointless.
Engaging him just gives him a platform to decieve.
True.
Posted on 6/13/26 at 6:14 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Learn something about Canaanite religious practices, divine images, and invoking the present of the deity.
Yes, I get that. The passage is not about Canaanite religious practices- it’s about idolatry. Canaanite religious practices, whether applied to Yahweh or not, were idolatrous.
quote:
You simply don’t know what you don’t know. I know what you don’t know, and I’m trying to help.
I do think that you really believe that. And I appreciate your concern. I think you really do believe that if I would subject myself to the influences that you have, then I would cease to believe. I can’t though. I find, at bottom, God to be a necessary being. I enjoy researching these issues when we discuss them, and I always find the same thing (a desire-based decision), but none of this is necessary for my faith. I just enjoy comparing the different ways the text can be interpreted. You can be as convinced as you like- it’s still simply your opinion.
quote:
I’d like you to find an example of some Christian who was filled with the Holy Spirit and born again and had a religious experience and then 40 days later was worshiping a statue of Zeus or Apollo
Ok. You got me there. But, I can show you a few people that I know that walked away early. Some in plenty less than 40 days. My point is not about the exact details, but the same spirit in both of them- a decision to trade faith in God, as defined by Him, for the idol of your choosing/crafting.
quote:
Maybe. But there are Jewish traditions that the golden bull was a miracle and actually made by Yahweh as a test. Look it up.
There are Jewish traditions that say a lot of things. It’s not what the Bible says though. We’re dealing with what the text of exodus says- in the context of exodus.
quote:
What about the plague Yahweh also sends at the end of the chapter after he commands the Levites to slaughter the 3000?
Good question. A note from the NET on v35:
Most commentators have difficulty with this verse. W. C. Kaiser says the strict chronology is not always kept, and so the plague here may very well refer to the killing of the three thousand (“Exodus,” EBC 2:481).
That’s interesting. It appears there’s some ambiguity here. But let’s go with the plain reading as it is, which seems to imply that Yahweh sent a plague, of which we don’t know how many died (but a plague does imply a lot), in addition to the 3000. Perhaps the levites took out the main instigators and the plague took out the terminally infected. Is that wrong? Who knows. The text doesn’t say. And, it’s a point of contention in translation.
quote:
The text doesn’t say those 3000 were guilty.
and he said to them, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Each man fasten his sword on his side, and go back and forth from entrance to entrance throughout the camp, and each one kill his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.’ ”
Interesting note on this verse:
The phrases have “and kill a man his brother, and a man his companion, and a man his neighbor.” The instructions were probably intended to mean that they should kill leaders they knew to be guilty because they had been seen or because they failed the water test—whoever they were.
The next day Moses said to the people, “You have committed a very serious sin, but now I will go up to the Lord—perhaps I can make atonement on behalf of your sin.”
(precursor to Christ)
So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has committed a very serious sin, and they have made for themselves gods of gold.
It’s juvenile to suggest that the 3000 people (leaders) who just got mercked weren’t guilty- because there’s not a specific line in the text that details it.
quote:
He sent a plague right after
Maybe. Maybe not. I can’t believe you didn’t already know there was beef over that interpretation. I guess it’s hard for you to keep track of. Even if he did- why is it wrong? If someone is a danger to my children, and they’re in my house- I am going to eliminate that threat. So would you. Why is it a problem when God does it?
quote:
Don’t stoop to Foo’s level and start telling me all those innocent babies Yahweh commanded the Israelites to murder and genocide were bad guys.
You two are like laurel and hardy. It’s funny to watch. The bottom line is that there are logical, plausible, and reasonable explanations; that are consistent with the Christian worldview and scripture itself, which provide intellectual satisfaction (for those who want it), and therefore a decision to make- as to which position (both being ultimately irrefutable) you find more attractive. That’s going to be determined by what you’ve been feeding your mind. You want to find reasons to say “we’ve got Him now.” They’re there. There’s plenty of things (especially in the OT) that, at first glance, and/or a desire to just stop there, can look pretty bad. But first off, that’s because you’re not attributing those actions to a morally perfect God. You, specifically, are like captain ahab, and Christianity is your moby dick. You’re not really the slightest bit interested in being challenged. Your rigid fundamentalist worldview cannot tolerate it.
quote:
What Yahweh does in the Bible is INjustice plain and simple - a ruthless jealous psychopath and you guys are on your hands and knees worshipping this evil (but imaginary) deity.
Maybe you don’t know- that not everyone who has been born is a child of God. Jesus said that unless a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. This is not a NT concept. It goes all the way back. Good guys and bad guys. Both sides fully embracing their roles. God working it all out. You’re so nearsighted because you’re so self focused. Anyway, when you look at the big picture, your reaction is like that of a toddler who has just been spanked for disrespectful behavior. You’re completely ignorant of the necessity and the benefits of the very actions you condemn. Because of your desire to escape accountability, you conveniently ignore the real possibility that in all instances, this actually was the best decision for all- even the transgressors. “It can’t be.” Because if it was (it is), you’re screwed. It’s not too late.
quote:
Even if I believed he was real and existed in reality, I would not trust him. I would loathe him. The character of the biblical Yahweh is just sick.
I could rest my case right here. This is enough to confirm that you are unreasonably settled in your position. It is clearly an emotional problem, that you mask as and use intellectual difficulty as a crutch. Your focus is narrow, and intentional.
Posted on 6/13/26 at 10:08 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
The passage is not about Canaanite religious practices- it’s about idolatry. Canaanite religious practices, whether applied to Yahweh or not, were idolatrous.
I get why you might think and say that. But do you know the Hebrew words that get translated as “eidolon” in Greek in the Septuagint? The Hebrew transliteration into English is “gillulim” and “elilim” which are literally “shite-gods” and “worthless-gods”. So your statement above about whether the worship was of Yahweh or not was idolatry sounds goofy and funny to me since I know the roots and real meanings of the words. Without realizing it you said the worship of Yahweh through divine images is partaking in shite-gods.
quote:
Good question. A note from the NET on v35: Most commentators have difficulty with this verse. W. C. Kaiser says the strict chronology is not always kept, and so the plague here may very well refer to the killing of the three thousand (“Exodus,” EBC 2:481).
I’ve noticed that the NET Bible often inserts apologetics into their translation and into their notes, even though there is often some really good stuff in there.
PS, don’t kid yourself. Yahweh commanded the Levites to slaughter their countrymen with the sword. Then after that Yahweh sent a plague. A plague. It’s not plausible and it’s not even possible that the divine plague was the Levites slaughtering with the sword.
quote:
I can’t believe you didn’t already know there was beef over that interpretation. I guess it’s hard for you to keep track of.
I was not aware. I still have a lot to learn. But I did research this for 10 minutes. Here is what I found. The scholarly dispute over the punishments - the slaughter of the 3000 and the plague - is whether those represent two successive punishments or if the two punishments describe the same punishment event. That’s probably what you read too. What it appears you did not read about though is the scholars who support the two punishment narratives describing the same punishment event reason that the text is composite from multiple authors and redactors/editors who stitched it together and put both versions in the final text. So in my opinion you made your world view weaker in a kind of ironic situation where you brought evidence to cast more doubt on the historicity of the story.
quote:
Even if he did- why is it wrong? If someone is a danger to my children, and they’re in my house- I am going to eliminate that threat. So would you. Why is it a problem when God does it?
Because Yahweh’s actions were unjust and evil. I bet if Yahweh was real and was a good guy, like genuinely cared about his creation, he couldn’t want his people worshipping him and praising him 24/7 because he wouldn’t be an egotistical a-hole, and he could certainly take actions to convince people of certain truths and moral actions rather than killing them all, if he wanted. Instead, Yahweh demonstrates objective morality by unjustly killing innocents.
quote:
a morally perfect God
quote:
Your rigid fundamentalist worldview cannot tolerate it.
Opposite Day?
Look PS, I don’t dislike you. Take that as a compliment. I hope you continue to do your own research and continue to learn new things. You have a long way to go, and you have the innate desire to believe what makes you comfortable (rather than having the desire to believe what is true about our reality). I hope you will one day think freely with an open mind. You’re not a bad person, but if you go the Foo route trying to justify all the baby-killing in the Old Testament a lot of people are going to wonder about you. So don’t do it.
I’m going to share a couple of YouTube links with you. Fair warning - they are atheist creations. They are entertaining animated skits concerning morality. They might give you some insight into how we see biblical morality.
The Don't Kill Children Challenge with DR. William Lane Craig
The Future of Morality
If you like them, or hate them, there’s some other really entertaining material by the same content creator. There’s one on the Song of Songs starring Ben Shapiro. First time I saw that one I was killing myself laughing.
Posted on 6/13/26 at 11:09 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
I still have a lot to learn. But I did research this for 10 minutes.
Peaking "Mount Stupid" it seems.
Amazing how you Jehovah's Witnesses go all in on this.
This post was edited on 6/13/26 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 6/14/26 at 7:54 am to Narax
quote:
Peaking "Mount Stupid" it seems.
You must be referring to yourself, because your posts don’t contain relevant meaningful subject matter.
Posted on 6/14/26 at 7:55 am to Squirrelmeister
Your obsessive devotion to militant (online) atheism is so odd.
This post was edited on 6/14/26 at 9:11 am
Posted on 6/14/26 at 8:32 am to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
There are no records of George Washington or founding fathers specifically calling themselves citizens of the US, so obviously they considered themselves British citizens even after the revolution through the remainder of their lives.
Good lord. What a horrible analogy.
Posted on 6/14/26 at 8:33 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Bruh, mormons aren’t real people
Posted on 6/14/26 at 8:36 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
You must be referring to yourself, because your posts don’t contain relevant meaningful subject matter.
Only a fool would think yours does, you have zero competence.
Look at your moronic tricks, ooh lets get a list of words used in the gospels that Paul doesn't use.
OK whatever they are lets use that to say they disagree.
Thats like saying how a book on World War II means that the civil war didnt happen, or else it would have been mentioned.
Again, pure autism.
You really think people are idiots and are going to go from Christians to doubting to Jehovah's Witnesses because of your idiocy?
You pick long commentaries and then take quote out of context to mean things the authors dont agree with.
How dumb do you think others are, as dumb as you?
Your supporters just enjoy when people shite on Christianity, they are happy with your little show because it makes them feel warm inside.
No one actually thinks you have two brain cells to rub together.
This post was edited on 6/14/26 at 11:00 am
Posted on 6/14/26 at 8:41 am to roadGator
quote:
You obsessive devotion to militant (online) atheism is so odd.
Because if he came in here saying hey I'm a Jehovah's Witness he would be laughed out of the place and his insanity would make them look worse than they are.
He doesn't care if he makes atheism look bad, he's just fishing to try to install doubt in people.
Ooh JW have a better translation.
Ooh JW are right about this.
Ooh this term leads you to a JW website.
There is a reason certain people support him.
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