re: This Country needs comprehensive LGBTQ+ reform.

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Thanks, and I am convinced though not unshakably. The reason I say that is because what I consider a fact could change based on new evidence being presented.

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While I won’t say that new evidence won’t make a difference, I will say that we have all the evidence needed. The main point is that it is not an intellectual matter- it’s a matter of the heart/soul/spirit; and that God decides who believes what. As far as evidence goes, it’s really just a bonus.

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That’s approaching Foo logic right there

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I love that dude. He’s the epitome of consistency (at least from what I can tell on TD). Even you should be able to appreciate that.

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The Bible is the truth, because it says so in the Bible

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All human reasoning regarding the supernatural is ultimately circular. We all ultimately rely on assumptions about things that cannot be proven in this realm. I can’t prove God exists, and you can’t prove He doesn’t. There’s nothing either of us can say to change the other’s mind. But, this seems to support the biblical idea that it is God alone who allots a measure of faith to each of us. IMO.

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Maybe just maybe is it possible that Paul was just making an excuse for his already converted followers to explain why some people didn’t believe his claims? “I tried to teach them but they were incapable of understanding it.” Maybe those people Paul was trying to convert had a decent bullshite detector?

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Sure. I’ll grant your maybe. But, is it truly likely? I mean, how many have come and gone in Christ’s name? Why weren’t Jim Jones and David Corresh as effective? Really, considering the effectiveness of the Bible and Christianity in general- it’s hard to put it in the same class as the others. Like it or not, Christianity is responsible for all the good things in your life. Christianity is a necessary component of the success of “the West.”

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If that were somehow true, then Jesus didn’t want me to be saved.

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Not yet. “Saved” is a final condition. We’re still running the course. TBD.

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would rather you spend your day with your family watching football and drinking a beer - ya know things that matter.

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My friend- I am doing all of the above (in moderation). And I believe that God has put you in my life for good reason (hopefully for both our enrichment). Consider yourself extended family that I have yet to meet.

We need common sense tranny control

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Why this is ignored and worse yet tolerated I just don’t know.

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Let me introduce you to our corporate gaslighting media.

They are called Terfs. There is a big war between Lesbians and The Trans community.

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I think B is for bisexual... it's still just a sex preference rather than delusion based.

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I knew someone who said they were bi because they had a boyfriend, who became her girlfriend, then they broke up.

My theory was he was a soy-beta-male and she was a major catalyst for him to transition, and represses the fact that she pushed him away.

Because… women.

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Maybe you, but all the scientific evidence I have patently disproves the biblical narratives to me.

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Exactly. Why is that? Why does an atheist and a theist of equal intelligence come to different conclusions when evaluating the same evidence? I’m not talking about you and me. I’m talking about credentialed professionals in various scientific disciplines. If intelligence and ability are equal, then it must be a difference in desire that leads each to their own conclusions.

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If there was substantive evidence of your particular deity that was clear and incontrovertible, then everyone would have to acknowledge that deity.

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You mean like seeing the resurrected Jesus Christ?

Luke 16:31 New American Standard Bible 1995
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

It’s not a matter of evidence- it’s a matter of desire.

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I have to disagree with you. I think the issue is you have a desire and willingness to believe what you were taught and it is comforting to you. On the other hand I have a desire to believe whatever the facts show to be true regardless of whether it gives me comfort.

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Sounds like we agree that belief is driven by desire. But I have a hard time believing that your “facts” don’t give you comfort- in light of the consequences of being wrong (Pascal).

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He claims that all the times God commanded the murder of innocent children and babies was “good”.

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I’ll spare you the obvious morality argument. I think the analogy of a janitor judging the CEO is more appropriate. And self-explanatory.

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The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

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I agree. An agnostic claims not to know. That checks out. A Christian claims only faith in God, and gives multiple arguments to support the validity of his belief. An atheist claims that God doesn’t exist. That’s a claim. It’s one thing to say “I dont believe in God because…” It’s a completely different thing to say “God doesn’t exist.”

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God or Jesus could just reveal himself to me. To everyone. Bam. Everyone would be a christian.

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I’ll spare you the accusations of Romans 1:18-32. I believe it, but I know you’ve heard it a thousand times.

I’m actually hoping for some kind of universalism to be true. I won’t even attempt to defend it, biblically. I just hope. I’d actually rather none of it be true than for anyone to suffer eternally. But, I’m just a janitor.

If not that, then the total annihilation of NPCs doesn’t seem too bad. I mean, think about it- as an atheist, you’re already comfortable with it being “lights out” when you breathe your last breath. What do you care if I spend eternity with the God you hate?

ETA: Thank you for the compliment and the story about the Prodigal Son!

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think there’s going to be any “reform” on this outside of trans in sports and hormone therapy for kids.

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It’s tough to hate something I don’t believe exists

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And yet you do so anyway.

If atheism were true, there would be no imperative to convince anyone of anything at all, including that atheism is true. You being such a staunch apologist for atheism only shows that you hate God.

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You’re just saying that because you hate Vishnu and Zeus. Why do you have so much hate in your heart for the other gods?

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I hate them because even the concept of them is antithetical to the truth and to the one, true God.

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Your deity is fantasy.

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Your atheism is fantasy.

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This worn out line never gets old Foo, keep it up!

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Truth never gets old.

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One has a desire to learn the truth and to go wherever the evidence leads. One has a desire to make believe fantasy, because it is personally comforting, so he gins up concepts that are not in evidence tricks himself into believing it. That’s my opinion.

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Mine as well. I think that’s probably everyone’s opinion, TBH. My only contention is that, well, this meme explains it better than words:


You can say that the theist is guilty of denying “facts.” But, how do you explain my desire (as a theist) for it not to be true? I don’t want to believe in God- I just do (and I believe the same is true of your position). Also, how do you come to the conclusion that your position is any less comforting than mine? I would actually argue that the atheist position is far more comforting than literally any theistic position (other than maybe universalism).

A little over 5 years ago- I was Peter- denying Christ. “It can’t be real. There’s no way a loving God would allow the evil that happens- the death and destruction of the (seemingly) innocent, etc.” I rationalized my adolescent conversion as exactly what you would likely describe as “looking for comfort in the crowd.” I ran, I ran so far awayeeyay. But seriously, I had tried so hard not to believe. And I was successful for many years. I was not indoctrinated as a child. I was not raised in a Christian household. I came to Christ in my teens. My mother started going to church. She told me there were a lot of pretty girls- you should come. I did. I went for the wrong reasons, but at a youth camp- I encountered the living God. It was an emotional experience- which is why I later convinced myself that it wasn’t real.

But as the years passed, I found myself intentionally suppressing the urge to return. I was very thoroughly enjoying the pleasures of the world. I was good at it. I made sin into an artistic expression. No one could drink/drug/fight/frick like me. What a fool I was. I was invincible.

In March of 2011, I lost my father. He was far from perfect (understatement)- but I loved the man. We had a great relationship (once I became an adult). But losing him, while it forced me to deal with and accept mortality- had no effect regarding my desire to continue on the path I had set for myself.

On 12/30/2015, I lost my younger brother. Invincibility was shattered. I was broken. I felt something that I hadn’t felt since I was a teen- vulnerable. But that didn’t change anything for me. I continued to ignore the call- blaming him for his own stupidity and trying to convince my broken mother that none of it really mattered. At that point, even she began to doubt. I was still “OK” but she was rapidly deteriorating. I remember constantly telling her “you should go back to church. You were so much happier when you went to church.” To which she would always reply “I’ll go when you go.” Nope. I’m good. Don’t need it. You do. That’s what I thought. That’s what I believed.

Countless conversations with believers seemingly had no effect- other than strengthening my resolve (sound familiar?). Religion made no sense as anything other than a warm blanky for retards.

But, I had never truly sought answers to the hard questions (the “problem” of evil, the evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the evidence for the inspired Word of God). I had never listened to arguments that have existed for thousands of years. I became acutely aware that I lived in intentional ignorance. I realized that I was living exactly the life I desired to live- not necessarily the life of truth and facts that I believed I was. I also realized that I was “kicking against the goads” (Acts 26:14). A light came on. I still fought.

Fast forward to 2020. In my 40’s. Covid, Biden , Trump, trannies, and Rush Limbaugh (who I had never listened to prior) made it apparent to me that this life really is good vs evil. Whether I liked it or not- it was a real thing. At some point (I dont recall the exact day) I called my mom and said “Let’s go to church.”

That was 5 years ago. It has been a process. In some ways (obedience to scripture) my life is harder than it was before. I now feel the guilt (that I became so good at inoculating myself against) when I fail Him. But I also now have a real sense of peace that transcends the cares of this world. I have achieved a childlike faith through exhausting my intellect with the mysteries that He has set before us all.

Because, both the theist and the atheist ultimately rely on faith alone. (Though yours is admittedly much stronger than mine )

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A claim of people seeing the resurrected Jesus is not evidence of it happening.

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Soooo, eyewitness testimony means nothing? Lol. But that’s not the point. The point is that many people saw the resurrected Jesus- and only some of them were changed by it. That’s the claim.

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Do you believe Mohammed rode to heaven on a flying horse?

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Of course not. Unless that’s code for raping children. Then I absolutely believe it.

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People also claimed to see Julius Caesar rise from the dead - why don’t you believe them?

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Post a link and let’s discuss.

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Which is why “John” had to write his story to refute Luke by having Lazarus raised from the dead so that they would be persuaded.

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Nah. That’s not how it works.

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No I can’t say I’m comfortable with that. (Lights out)

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Now that’s interesting. Would you care to elaborate?

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It’s tough to hate something I don’t believe exists.

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It’s also tough to explain putting this much effort into debunking Santa Claus. Furthermore, why don’t you put this much effort into debating Mooselimbs? Chicken?