- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The US overthrew the Yukanovych government in 2014
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:55 am to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:55 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We are still fighting using the cold war mentality. Its insane.
I never knew about Russia's approach to NATO in the late 90s.
The United States had the golden opportunity of all golden opportunities - take your bitter rival and make them a full-blown friend.
And the US Government decided against that. The US had the chance to lock in 30-50 years of Peace in the Western world, and they pissed it away.
0
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:57 am to UndercoverBryologist
Brandishing in many cases is illegal so yes.
You don’t get to point guns at people randomly.
You don’t get to point guns at people randomly.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:01 am to AU86
quote:
1. Yanukovych was a stooge of Putin that stole billions of dollars from Ukraine. That is a fact. 2. Yanukovych promised the people of Ukraine that he would sign the EU trade agreement (that the majority of people supported at the time). He lied to them and turned around and signed a major deal with Putin instead. That is a fact. 3. In 2014 the majority of the people were not interested in joining Nato. The sentiment changed on NATO only after Putin took Crimea and invaded Donbass. They supported joining the EU. That is a fact. 4. The Maiden Revolution started with protests. The protests lasted for months. 5. The protests expanded when Yanukovych was granted dictatorial powers that made what Trudeau did seem mild. That is a fact. 6. Yanukovych brought in Russians from Crimea and used them as snipers and they shot hundreds of protesters in the streets. They were also used as brutal thugs in the streets. This group was actually banned after Yanukovych fled and his government was disbanded by the parliament. That is a fact. 7. Yanukovych fled to Russia after the people stated they would storm the government on the next day. He and his thugs tried to destroy evidence of his stealing and corruption by dumping the documents in the river. But when the people occupied his multi million dollar house they recovered many of the documents. Yanukovych lived like a king off of his stolen billions while the people lived in poverty. That is a fact. 8. When Ukraine became independent they had the second most resources of any Soviet republic. All of that wealth has been stolen and Ukraine is the second poorest nation in Europe. That is a fact. 9. The majority of Ukrainians want no part of Russia. Putin and the Russians are hated by the majority. That is a fact.
And none of that absolves the United States for it’s continued support of “Color Revolutions” throughout Eastern Europe the past two decades or so nor does it excuse continued NATO expansion into Russia’s traditional spheres of influence during that same time frame.
I know you are not arguing otherwise but this needs reiterating for other posters who are not as knowledgeable as you about the geo-political chess game that has been occurring in Eastern Europe since the end of the Cold War.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't think any "peace deal" will stop the sanctions.
I would suggest that you vastly underestimate the incompetence of this guy:
quote:
Russia's economy is already total shite and this will decrease over time.
Ironically, this invasion, and the energy sector going “green,” gives him a shite ton of leverage. Literally with nothing more than a future press conference, he can (with the approval of Saudi Arabia) impact the price of oil.
quote:
We're going to figure out the petro side of things in time, too. It's going to be costly but it will happen.
Gas prices going up, and being able to blame the rise on Putin, will be a boon for the climate communazis.
quote:
This is a Rubicon moment from Russia
I agree. In which manner of outcome, we will see. As stated before, Putin is a diabolical authoritarian that thrives on criminality. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t also cunning and calculating. I don’t trust that everything being reported is the gospel.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:01 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:File that under "It seemed a good idea at the time." Did the West really want them? Or did the West simply want to continue poking Russia. Think!
...that still wants to join the West.
We supposedly were on the cusp of allowing Ukraine entry into NATO. NATO was so honest in its love of its would-be brother that it refused ANY assistance when Ukraine was attacked. In other words, the NATO invite was simple lipservice. But to what end?
Why would Biden extend a lipservice NATO invite to Ukraine? What motive could there possibly be for then leaking that invitation to the Russians?
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 11:06 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:04 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Brandishing in many cases is illegal so yes.
You don’t get to point guns at people randomly.
Well, the analogy between neighbors on the street and neighboring states is not a strict 1:1 comparison, as yes, if you are pointing your weapon out your window, you may or may not be arrested. But states have the right to aim missiles at other nations and it only becomes an act of true “aggression” if the missiles are launched.
We had missiles in silos with preprogrammed Soviet targets ready to go for 45 years of the Cold War. That didn’t get the Soviets permission to make a preemptive strike.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Is there legitimacy if the means of attaining participation in the pact was via a US advanced coup?
quote:
But that threat doesn't exist in 2022
If Russia did this in 2014, that argument would have some merit
Your belief that 2022 happened in a vacuum is quite astounding to me.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:07 am to jimmy the leg
John Mearsheimer called all of this in 2015 to a T. DuckDuckGo him and watch his videos. He was an expert on the Ukraine situation. He said Ukraine would get obliterated because of what we were doing
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 11:09 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
You are intentionally missing the point.
Russia feels threatened. They have reasons to feel this way. Maybe they’ve done it to themselves, and this invasion win or lose will make things worse, but they certainly have reasons.
Russia feels threatened. They have reasons to feel this way. Maybe they’ve done it to themselves, and this invasion win or lose will make things worse, but they certainly have reasons.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:14 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Well, the analogy between neighbors on the street and neighboring states is not a strict 1:1
Correct. One man’s prudent measure of self defense is another man’s provocation. Especially among different nations with unique laws and a complicated relationship.
quote:
That didn’t get the Soviets permission to make a preemptive strike.
And who issues such “permission”?
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:18 am to SCLibertarian
Establishment would go insane if Russia turned Mexico into a puppet country, and set up shop on our southern border. You'd finally see a big arse wall all along the border.
We didn't even want a hostile Russia in Cuba. We threatened nuclear war if they didn't get the frick out.
No nuclear super power wants a hostile nuclear super power right outside their door. We definitely don't want it. China and Russia are probably the same.
We didn't even want a hostile Russia in Cuba. We threatened nuclear war if they didn't get the frick out.
No nuclear super power wants a hostile nuclear super power right outside their door. We definitely don't want it. China and Russia are probably the same.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
NATO is believing that US TAX PAYERS SHOULD PERPETUALLY SUBSIDIZE THE DEFENSE OF MEMBER NATIONS TO THE BENEFIT DEEPLY EMBEDDED CORPORATE ENTITIES….
FIFY!
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:21 am to Toomer Deplorable
“Europe” formed their own Union and we are still footing the bill to protect them from WWII ghosts.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:24 am to Plx1776
quote:
Establishment would go insane if Russia turned Mexico into a puppet country, and set up shop on our southern border. You'd finally see a big arse wall all along the border.
Ukraine isn't a puppet country, dumbass. They kicked out Obama's puppet government and indicted the president for treason.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:27 am to Evolved Simian
They’ve been under a puppet regime, either Russia’s or the West’s for the majority of their independence. The corruption didn’t just stop with the election of Zelensky anymore than ours did with the election of Trump.
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 11:38 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:27 am to AU86
quote:You have asserted numerous claims as "facts". E.g., "Stolen Billions". Yanukovych was a corrupt politician just like nearly every other Ukrainian politician prior to Zelensky. He ended up with a net worth of something around what Nanci Pelosi has amassed in her dalliances. He was replaced after a US/Soros orchestrated coup by Poroshenko who, unlike Yanukovych, actually was a corrupt billionaire. No one's hands are clean here (except possibly Zelensky).
Yanukovych lived like a king off of his stolen billions while the people lived in poverty. That is a fact.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:29 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Everything. The 2014 coup removed a government that had declared its intent to join the Eurasian Economic Union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan for one that had declared its intent on joining the EU instead. This would put Russia's only warm water port in EU and potentially NATO control. This threat to a major strategic asset was unacceptable to Putin. Crimea has not historically been a part of Ukraine, and was only transferred by Khrushchev in 1954. In 2014 Putin effectively reversed that transaction as the politics of the region had clearly changed since 1954, and re-took control of the port at Sevastopol as well as the entire peninsula. Crimea gets its freshwater supply from the Dnieper River via the North Crimean Canal. After the 2014 coup, and the seizure of Crimea by the Russians, Ukraine severely restricted the amount of water Crimea received ostensibly for Russia being in arrears on charges for the water. That year crops in Crimea failed. During 2015 and 2016 Russia invested in upgrading the farming practices and sought alternate water sources in Crimea. But then in 2016 Putin had a stroke of luck when one of his business associates became president of the United States. As long as Trump was President, Ukraine would not join NATO. However, once Trump was ousted and Biden installed, Putin saw Ukraine's old buddies from the Obama administration back in charge. This didn't bode well for Ukraine as a neutral interest, and the potential to have Crimea cut off again, this time by a NATO power was again completely unacceptable to the Kremlin. As far as the current Ukrainian government being "legitimate", we can't even agree that our own government is legitimate, how can we judge those on the other side of the planet? Can we say that the elections of 2019 were fair and representative? I can't. I truly believe this whole thing is about securing strategic assets in Crimea, and developing economic assets in Ukraine. For years Russia profited from the corruption in Ukraine, suddenly it was the West who was profiting from it. To appeal to some sense of 'morality' or 'legality' is naïve and totally misses the mark. It's practical. The international community doesn't operate on universal laws or morals, it's gangsterism, pure and simple. That's a system that Putin can understand.
This! The fact that NGO’s have used corrupt Eastern European governments as a giant money laundering operation while making governments appear legitimately “elected” pisses me off to no end because they damned sure don’t have any problem sacrificing military lives for it. One man personifies this: Hunter Biden.
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 11:31 am to NC_Tigah
I chuckle at that talking point because Hunter Biden jet sets all over the world on the taxpayers nickel, raking in generational wealth off of corrupt deals with these very same people, and American liberals don’t give a shite.
Pelosi does the same. It’s ok when they do it.
Pelosi does the same. It’s ok when they do it.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 12:04 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
The corruption didn’t just stop with the election of Zelensky anymore than ours did with the election of Trump.
It certainly took a different direction, as the US did with Trump. The biggest difference is that Trump couldn't have the rats indicted for treason.
It may not be free from Corruption, but Ukraine is FAR from being a US puppet government anymore.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 12:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the globalists
Oh. I was giving you legitimate responses. That may not have been wise.
I hear you, it's a loaded term.
In this case I'm using it in the context of the western capitalists that respect sovereignty right up to the point where they desire natural or strategic resources, and then change the rules to achieve their economic/strategic goals. In terms of capital investment in these endeavors, anyone participating in the western market scheme is complicit. In this sense, I consider myself a "globalist". Ultimately, to the globalist, profit is the only ideology. Sovereignty and governments (and their militaries) are merely tools with which to apply leverage in the global marketplace.
ETA: ie, gangsterism.
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 12:24 pm
Page 10 of 11
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News