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Message
re: The US overthrew the Yukanovych government in 2014
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:16 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:16 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
However, once Trump was ousted and Biden installed, Putin saw Ukraine's old buddies from the Obama administration back in charge. This didn't bode well for Ukraine as a neutral interest, and the potential to have Crimea cut off again, this time by a NATO power was again completely unacceptable to the Kremlin.
As far as the current Ukrainian government being "legitimate", we can't even agree that our own government is legitimate, how can we judge those on the other side of the planet? Can we say that the elections of 2019 were fair and representative? I can't.
I truly believe this whole thing is about securing strategic assets in Crimea, and developing economic assets in Ukraine. For years Russia profited from the corruption in Ukraine, suddenly it was the West who was profiting from it.
To appeal to some sense of 'morality' or 'legality' is naïve and totally misses the mark. It's practical. The international community doesn't operate on universal laws or morals, it's gangsterism, pure and simple. That's a system that Putin can understand.
0
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
None of that even matters.
No. NATO is the wellspring of much of the continuing crisis.
What is NATO’s mission? Whose interests are they protecting?
More importantly, why are US taxpayers still subsidizing NATO 30 years after the end of the Cold War?
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 10:19 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:18 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I truly believe this whole thing is about securing strategic assets in Crimea, and developing economic assets in Ukraine
Well you're wrong immediately if you think there will be any net economic development
quote:
To appeal to some sense of 'morality' or 'legality' is naïve and totally misses the mark. It's practical. The international community doesn't operate on universal laws or morals, it's gangsterism, pure and simple. That's a system that Putin can understand.
Putin wants the international community to go back to this, but it largely is run by economics and trade these days.
Putin hates that, because Russia is an economic dwarf and he's purposefully halted any economic development in a quest to be anti-Western.
Putin knows he only remains relevant in a world where he poses some sort of military threat, b/c Russia is so shitty otherwise they can't compete elsewhere. They an advanced version of NK and have gone in a completely different direction than China over the past 20 years.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:20 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
More important, why are US taxpayers still subsidizing NATO 30 years after the end of the Cold War?
shite, Putin's idiocy may have changed that. Germany is announcing they're going to spend more on military to meet NATO obligations now.
I don't believe in the US subsidizing European defense, for the record. We should spend considerably less on our military and the EU/UK should spend more. I wouldn't even shed a tear of NATO dissolved, personally. I'm not that invested in it.
Regardless, NATO is no threat to Russia. It's a defensive pact that stands to counter potential Russian threats. No matter how much Putin whines and stomps about NATO and no matter how much propaganda his influence can muster online, that fact remains.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
frick respecting a totalitarian barbarian who may be losing his mind. Seriously. frick that. I don't respect the perspective of Jihadists or Communists, either. Some behaviors/mentalities are so immoral/toxic and dangerous that they have no place in a civilized society and no respect should be given.
You are such a neocon, it’s hilarious
Why are we involved in treaties with countries half way around the world whose adversary has an economy the size of Florida? Just leave them alone, stop buying their oil and let them fade into irrelevance.
It’s funny because you keep talking about putting these “barbaric, toxic totalitarians” in check but have yet to comment on how we continue to buy their oil and gas (Russia and the Middle East) which enables them to fund their militaries and jihadists that cause the chaos.
You are so damn naive
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 10:21 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:The current regime got sucked in by Dems like a fly to a trap. I agree with your sentiment. Zelensky seems above board and legit. Unfortunately he is a political novice, and by getting lured by outsiders to play pattycake with NATO on Russia's doorstep, he probably sealed his fate.
The current regime
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Putin knows he only remains relevant in a world where he poses some sort of military threat
Which they are, and for the foreseeable future, will be. What’s your point?
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:22 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You are such a neocon, it’s hilarious
Where have I advocated sending US troops to Ukraine?
quote:
It’s funny because you keep talking about putting these “barbaric, toxic totalitarians” in check
Link me
quote:
but have yet to comment on how we continue to buy their oil and gas
Do you think that a baw from SWLA is happy with the current fedgov regs on LNG?
The Biden admin and Saudi Arabia has cost my region literally tens of billions of dollars in private investment specifically centered around LNG production.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Regardless, NATO is no threat to Russia. It's a defensive pact that stands to counter potential Russian threats.
By continually expanding over the last 30 years?
How have Russians alliances expanded over that same time frame?
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:24 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Which they are, and for the foreseeable future, will be.
If this Ukrainian aggression keeps going as poorly as it has, not really.
They're a nuclear threat, not a military threat.
Also their economy is about to be butt fricked back into the tsarist era.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:24 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
The US was attacked by another state, which is basically all you need to trigger a NATO response.
The 20 year occupation of Afghanistan was a massive money-suck of American taxpayer dollars into the pockets of the corrupted corporate entities whose interests NATO protects.
I don’t see what’s so hard to get about this.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:26 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
By continually expanding over the last 30 years?
Yes?
NATO membership is a seal of progress for many nations in Eastern Europe, similar to EU membership.
quote:
How have Russians alliances expanded over that same time frame?
Nobody wants to deal with a country with an 1890 mindset and a failing economy, so not well.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
keeps going as poorly as it has
The very average American will believe anything.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:30 am to SlowFlowPro
You can’t have it both ways.
NATO is boondoggle for the military industrial complex.
quote:
I don't believe in the US subsidizing European defense, for the record. We should spend considerably less on our military and the EU/UK should spend more. I wouldn't even shed a tear of NATO dissolved, personally. I'm not that invested in it.
Regardless, NATO is no threat to Russia. It's a defensive pact that stands to counter potential Russian threats. No matter how much Putin whines and stomps about NATO and no matter how much propaganda his influence can muster online, that fact remains.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:31 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
NATO is boondoggle for the military industrial complex.
NATO should have been abandoned 20 years ago. Its a new world, we need to act like it.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They're a nuclear threat, not a military threat.
Nonetheless, the Sword of Damocles is still in play.
quote:
Also their economy is about to be butt fricked back into the tsarist era.
Their economy is centered around oil. The price is sky rocketing. All of these leaders that are virtue signaling empty suits (Biden), are still buying Russian oil (at inflated profits). Perhaps the sanctions will be impactful. Perhaps the SWIFT facet will force his hand. Perhaps the talks between the two countries will make the sanctions moot. Time will tell.
But for now, oil is still flowing unless something has changed this AM.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:32 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
You can’t have it both ways.
NATO is boondoggle for the military industrial complex.
Sure, but it's no threat to Russia unless Russia acts aggressively towards a member.
And we should spend less to fund the MIC. Europe should spend more.
Nothing illogical about those stances. They act in harmony.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
NATO membership is a seal of progress for many nations in Eastern Europe, similar to EU membership.
And all the while, U.S. taxpayers freight the bill for this little country club.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:34 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Perhaps the talks between the two countries will make the sanctions moot.
I don't think any "peace deal" will stop the sanctions.
quote:
But for now, oil is still flowing unless something has changed this AM.
Russia's economy is already total shite and this will decrease over time.
Like I said earlier, this aggression has Germany stating it's about to increase it's military/defense budget. We're going to figure out the petro side of things in time, too. It's going to be costly but it will happen.
This is a Rubicon moment from Russia
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Well you're wrong immediately if you think there will be any net economic development
It's the same kind of "economic development" that we've been taking advantage of since 2014. Putin wants Ukraine in his economic union, not the EU, so he can control the numbers game in Ukraine instead of Biden, Inc.
quote:
Putin wants the international community to go back to this, but it largely is run by economics and trade these days.
Economics and trade under whose rules? The big dogs make the rules that the little dogs have to play by. Putin is a penny-ante operator on the margins of the mob's territory. Putin just wants part of his territory back.
quote:
Putin knows he only remains relevant in a world where he poses some sort of military threat
Putin knows his only leverage against the big dogs is his doomsday threat. Without that, Russia would've been assimilated and marginalized by the globalists long ago. He's holding that ace while he tries to get away with expanding his territory (or really trying to maintain his historical territory) using the tools at his disposal, energy resources to Europe, and his military which he re-vamped after the Georgia campaign of 2008 - for purposes just such as he's employing it now.
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