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Message
re: The Shooting of Michael Brown: Focus on the Police State; NOT racism
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's not that it's one or the other, but only one aspect is truly worthy of discussion
I disagree that, if it is true, the race angle isn't worthy of discussion at all. Easy to say its not worthy of discussion when it is not your demographic/family member/neighborhood being disproportionately affected.
quote:
if we remove the police state, whatever racism exist won't have nearly the same impact on minorities
Agreed.
quote:
if we remove racism, the police state still oppresses all of us in a terrible, terrible way
Agree to an extent, but you are clearly arguing from the perspective of someone not in the unfairly targeted group (again, assuming this is factually correct). Sure, maybe if racism is removed it won't make a difference to you, but it will make a difference to those who have been getting the short end of the stick for all these years. I think that is a net positive for society as a whole.
quote:
the national news is going to focus on racism at what clip? 95-99% of the stories about either will focus on racism?
I recognize this, and I'm with you that this isn't right. But I disagree with you that it should be 0%.
4
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:20 pm to onmymedicalgrind
Well I'm going to hold off on being outraged until this is settled.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:20 pm to Sentrius
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/1/15 at 12:10 am
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:25 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Agree to an extent, but you are clearly arguing from the perspective of someone not in the unfairly targeted group
Sounds like you agree on what the real root of the problem is, although you hesitate to say it.
Attacking the real root of the problem is a better way to fix it than complaining about a different problem (that manifests itself here thanks to the root problem) though, no?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:27 pm to Negative Nomad
quote:
Negative Nomad
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/1/15 at 12:10 am
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:29 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I disagree that, if it is true, the race angle isn't worthy of discussion at all. Easy to say its not worthy of discussion when it is not your demographic/family member/neighborhood being disproportionately affected.
it's not that race isn't worthy of discussion in the absolute. the problem is that the argument is played out. the market for the bitching is oversaturated. and it's the secondary issue, if it is any issue at all in this scenario
quote:
Sure, maybe if racism is removed it won't make a difference to you, but it will make a difference to those who have been getting the short end of the stick for all these years. I think that is a net positive for society as a whole.
if the police keep oppressing us, it just means tehy stay in the same boat and other races may get oppressed a little more
for the sake of discussion, i'm just assuming racism is part of policing. removing it and keeping the growing police state doesn't do anything for black people. they'll still have the police boots on their necks (along with everyone else)
that's why i was saying it's ridiculous to "claim" this problem for a single race (not your comments). this line of logic seems to prefer a "solution" that lets white people feel the perceived oppression rather than eliminate it out right.
kill the head and the body will die, as with all problems that government creates
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:30 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Sounds like you agree on what the real root of the problem is, although you hesitate to say it.
Oh not at all. I hate the police with a passion. Its in my blood
But seriously they need to be stopped.
quote:
Attacking the real root of the problem is a better way to fix it than complaining about a different problem (that manifests itself here thanks to the root problem) though, no?
I agree. I just am confused why people are framing this in a way where we have to focus either on the police state, or the racism. If you force me to choose one bw those two to focus on, I go with police state. But I disagree with the premise that it is useless to discuss race or that race isn't an issue here .
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:32 pm to Negative Nomad
quote:
There is no police state, never has and never will. Just becuase they have big guns and big vehicles doesn't mean what you have warped this into.
SWAT use is becoming more prevalent, especially for non-violent situations. that alone is an increase in the police state, especially since crime has been going down for more than 20 years. crime was going down before this explosion, and will continue to do so without it.
there is no justification for this explosion
quote:
Chances of you seeing M16s and APCs is becuase you're getting a warrant served on you or near you and the target has been deamed dangerous. You people are wrapped way too tight.
an unarmed teenager was shot for no real reason last night. this is one of a slew of other horror stories due to overzealous policing
this isn't an imaginary threat. this is a pervasive threat
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:32 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I just am confused why people are framing this in a way where we have to focus either on the police state, or the racism
because one is primary. one is secondary. and the secondary issue (racism) will already dominate the national news
we don't need to add to their bullshite
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:34 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I just am confused why people are framing this in a way where we have to focus either on the police state, or the racism.
Well, both problems are very tough to overcome. IMO we all should be focusing on one at a time-the appropriate one- or we won't solve any of them.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 4:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
never forget Boston
Never forget America's stupidity and willingness to give up freedom for the perception of security.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:42 pm to SlowFlowPro
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/1/15 at 12:10 am
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:44 pm to Negative Nomad
quote:
You have no idea what happened.
by pretty much every account he got away from the arrest and ran away. then he was shot
also, i believe he had already been frisked and searched, so there was no threat of weaponry
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:52 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Slo only deals in absolutes.
So I've noticed at times. And most of the time his absolute is immune to intellectual critique. When he's not being utterly annoying, however, he's an interesting poster.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:54 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Slo only deals in absolutes.
that is an outright lie
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:55 pm to VOR
quote:
his absolute is immune to intellectual critique.
well i mean, 2+2=4. you can't "intellectually critique" that
Posted on 8/10/14 at 5:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
This could be the story that actually breaks a serious discussion on the current state of affairs.
Eyewitnesses are pretty much claiming an outright execution while the police pull the classic - he reached for my gun so I put seven in him.
This is an era of stupidity in criminal justice. The rest of the developed world is disgusted by our prison complex, yet we have types like nomad here claiming there is no problem. Police buying drones, leadership making statements to the media comparing the policing of small cities to real warring; It's pathetic.
Eyewitnesses are pretty much claiming an outright execution while the police pull the classic - he reached for my gun so I put seven in him.
This is an era of stupidity in criminal justice. The rest of the developed world is disgusted by our prison complex, yet we have types like nomad here claiming there is no problem. Police buying drones, leadership making statements to the media comparing the policing of small cities to real warring; It's pathetic.
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 6:03 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I disagree that, if it is true, the race angle isn't worthy of discussion at all. Easy to say its not worthy of discussion when it is not your demographic/family member/neighborhood being disproportionately affected.
You make a point. Here's the thing. No doubt there are race baiters that take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself. And, unfortunately, that dilutes the valid criticisms that can be directed toward police interaction with minority neighborhoods. But it's also pretty short sighted to ignore the fact that there are police officers who have a real problem dealing with black people resulting in the occasional unfortunate incident. Honestly, I've had discussions with several cops over the years, some of whom I count as friends, who should re-evaluate their attitude in general and toward black people especially. Not necessarily a majority of them, but s significant number.
ETA: I don't mean to suggest in any way that a majority of white/black police encounters are racist.
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 6:04 pm to Negative Nomad
quote:
I won't and don't care about the so called "police state" scare tactics you idiots have gotten all worked up about.
Figures.
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