re: The Official Thread: Russia invades Ukraine

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I never knew Putin asked to join NATO in '99. The US was so warped by cold warrior mentality it shot the idea down.

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Holy crap it is so much more complicated than that. There is wiki entry that is 10 times too large to cut and paste but to keep it brief - the intro - followed by how things went downhill in Georgia and Ukraine and spying done at NATO headquarters by the Russian's allowed to work there.

How can NATO take them in in such a case? They spied and didn't even deny it.

Cut and paste -

NATO and Russia

Relations between the NATO military alliance and the Russian Federation were established in 1991 within the framework of the North Atlantic Cooperation Council.

In 1994, Russia joined the Partnership for Peace program, and through the early-2010s, NATO and Russia signed several additional agreements on cooperation.

The Russia–NATO Council was established in 2002 for handling security issues and joint projects.

Cooperation between Russia and NATO now develops in several main sectors, including: fighting terrorism, military cooperation, cooperation on Afghanistan (including transportation by Russia of non-military International Security Assistance Force freight (see NATO logistics in the Afghan War), and fighting the local drug production), industrial cooperation, and weapons non-proliferation.

On 1 April 2014, NATO unanimously decided to suspend all practical co-operation with the Russian Federation in response to the Annexation of Crimea, but the NATO-Russia Council (NRC) was not suspended.

On 18 February 2017, the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Lavrov said he supported the resumption of military cooperation with the NATO alliance.

In late March 2017, this cooperation Council met in advance of a NATO Foreign Ministers conference in Brussels, Belgium.

In October 2021, following an incident in which NATO expelled eight Russian officials from its Brussels headquarters, Russia suspended its mission to NATO and ordered the closure of NATO's office in Moscow.

SNIP

In 1991, as the Soviet Union was dissolved, Russian president Boris Yeltsin sent a letter to NATO, suggesting that Russia's long-term aim was to join NATO.

Formal contacts and cooperation between Russia and NATO began in 1991, within the framework of the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (later renamed Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council), and were further deepened as Russia joined the Partnership for Peace program on 22 June 1994.

On 27 May 1997, at the NATO Summit in Paris, France, NATO and Russia signed the Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security, a road map for would-be NATO-Russia cooperation.

SNIP

In early March 2014, tensions increased between NATO and Russia as a result of Russia's move to annex Crimea: NATO urged Russia to stop its actions and said it supported Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty.[25] On 1 April 2014, NATO issued a statement by NATO foreign ministers that announced it had "decided to suspend all practical civilian and military cooperation between NATO and Russia. Our political dialogue in the NATO-Russia Council can continue, as necessary, at the Ambassadorial level and above, to allow us to exchange views, first and foremost on this crisis".[26][27] The statement condemned Russia's "illegal military intervention in Ukraine and Russia's violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity".[27]

In spring, the Russian Defense Ministry announced it was planning to deploy additional forces in Crimea as part of beefing up its Black Sea Fleet, including re-deployment by 2016 of nuclear-capable Tupolev Tu-22M3 ('Backfire') long-range strike bombers — which used to be the backbone of Soviet naval strike units during the Cold War, but were later withdrawn from bases in Crimea.[28] Such moves alarmed NATO: in November NATO's top military commander US General Philip Breedlove said that the alliance was "watching for indications" amid fears over the possibility that Russia could move any of its nuclear arsenal to the peninsula.[29] In December, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said this would be a legitimate action as "Crimea has now become part of a country that has such weapons under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons."[30]

At the NATO Wales summit in early September, the NATO-Ukraine Commission adopted a Joint Statement that "strongly condemned Russia's illegal and illegitimate self-declared "annexation" of Crimea and its continued and deliberate destabilization of eastern Ukraine in violation of international law";[31] this position was re-affirmed in the early December statement by the same body.[32]

A report released in November highlighted the fact that close military encounters between Russia and the West (mainly NATO countries) had jumped to Cold War levels, with 40 dangerous or sensitive incidents recorded in the eight months alone, including a near-collision between a Russian reconnaissance plane and a passenger plane taking off from Denmark in March with 132 passengers on board.[33] An unprecedented increase[34] in Russian air force and naval activity in the Baltic region prompted NATO to step up its longstanding rotation of military jets in Lithuania.[35] Similar Russian air force increased activity in the Asia-Pacific region that relied on the resumed use of the previously abandoned Soviet military base at Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam.[36] In March 2015, Russia's defense minister Sergey Shoygu said that Russia's long-range bombers would continue patrolling various parts of the world and expand into other regions.[37]

Have the Russians ever worked with the Western Europe for a peaceful Europe? They must have dined here along the way, right?

Btw, I wouldn’t count WWII. The Russians initially worked with Germany to carve up Poland and the Baltic States. Not until Germany turned on Russia did Russia beg for help from the West.

For 500 years the Russian Empire whether it was a dictatorship, Communistic, or a monarchy has been attacking their neighbors.

Good point doubleb.

I can't think of a single thing that Russia has done in Europe that has been good except for ww2 and they mostly did that to save their own asses, not to actually help Europe.

No mention of nato destroying Yugoslavia and the US overthrowing several countries through coups and color revolutions

It’s been widely reported that any news with dissent has been decimated over the last 10 years. Ukraine is a shite country

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Good point doubleb. I can't think of a single thing that Russia has done in Europe that has been good except for ww2 and they mostly did that to save their own asses, not to actually help Europe.

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That good ole Louisiana education system shining in

Timmy, any recommendations for Telegraph channels to watch to get the Russian side of this war?

I mean, you still think Ukraine is winning when Ukraine cities basically no longer exist on the east coast and Russia is taking what they want on the east coast. If you thought Russia was going to run a caravan all over Ukraine you are special needs. That would be like the US saying we are going to occupy all of Canada. It's impossible.

Liberal hero John Conyers nailed it a few years ago.

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Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I begin by thanking Mr. Frelinghuysen and
Mr. Visclosky in conducting the amendments around these important
considerations.
This amendment that I propose this evening limits arms, training, and
other assistance to the neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia, the Azov Battalion.
Foreign Policy magazine has characterized the 1,000-man Azov
Battalion as ``openly neo-Nazi'' and ``fascist.'' Numerous other news
organizations, including The New York Times, The Guardian, and the
Associated Press have corroborated the dominance of White supremacist
and anti-Semitic views within the group; yet Ukraine's Interior
Minister recently announced the Azov Battalion will be among the units
to receive training and arms from Western allies, including the United
States.
Azov's founder, Andriy Biletsky, organized the neo-Nazi group the
Social-National Assembly in 2008. Azov men use neo-Nazi symbolism on
their banner.

{time} 0020

These groups run counter to American values, and once the fighting
ends, they pose a significant threat to the Ukrainian Government and to
the Ukrainian people. As we have seen many times, most notably within
the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, these groups will not lay down their
arms once the conflict is over. They will turn their arms against their
own people in order to enforce their hateful views.
I urge the support of my amendment and to make it U.S. law that we
will not equip this dangerous neo-Nazi militia.

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congress.gov