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re: The Law by Frédéric Bastiat
Posted on 6/22/26 at 1:43 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 6/22/26 at 1:43 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Haven’t read the whole thread, so maybe this is a misread—
Are you implying that ownership and possession are the same thing?
—but by saying possession is natural
and “ownership”* is merely a construct, are you implying that stealing is also just a construct with respect to value judgment?
*I’m assuming by “ownership” you’re referring to the body of law/ designations we use to clarify/ enforce property rights.
1
Posted on 6/22/26 at 1:53 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
I’m praying to God, as are other parishioners.
Who are you praying to? Allah?
“Allah” is “God” in another language. The Iranians sometimes call Him “Khuda”. It all means the same thing. Arab Christians pray to “Allah”.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 1:53 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Maybe you never seen an animal protect a kill from being stolen by other animals?
That’s a survival instinct. Humans accumulating trinkets and duplicate items aren’t survival instincts.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 1:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
That’s a survival instinct.
Yes ownership is a survival instinct. Congrats on catching up.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:00 pm to stout
quote:
She also said the Constitution is outdated and needs to be modernized,
Come on. That’s not what I said.
I can think it makes little sense to regard an 18th century text as prophetic and sacred or beyond criticism and also enjoy discussions about what a right is. Why would those be mutually exclusive?
It’s interesting that so many people are so enthralled by me that they’d rather analyze me than whatever topic is at hand.
E
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:04 pm to Robin Masters
Why can’t you just discuss this like a normal person? Why are you so intent on being hostile?
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I understand the objection, but I think you’re mischaracterizing what I mean by rights. If you’re using a different definition, it would help to make it explicit.
That's describing more of a commentary on power than "rights" (especially "natural rights").
Again, this is the problem with "natural rights". It's just vague, malleable language like "lawfare" or "globalism".
On my view, a right is a moral principle defining a person’s freedom of action in a social context. It is not a vague appeal to nature, tradition, or sentiment, nor merely a comment on power.
This is not “just my opinion” because it does not assert rights as axioms. It follows from something more basic: human beings survive not by instinct or force, but by reason - perceiving, judging, producing, acting. Rights define the conditions that make that possible in a social setting.
This view does presuppose "objective morality", but rejecting that creates a deeper problem: it is hard to see how any claim about justice, law, or obligation avoids the same presupposition. When someone argues that “rights are fake” or “just made up,” they are already treating their own judgment as carrying weight. If not, the claim isn't an argument, it's noise. 'Rights are just opinion' is, on its own terms, merely an opinion.
Finally, if you want to claim rights only come from law or agreement, I would ask are you saying that before law, there is no meaningful sense in which harm, coercion, or killing is wrong?"
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:10 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
I would reject this if your argument is that ownership isn’t a natural construct.
Wondering if you view ownership as separate from possession.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:13 pm to tarzana
quote:
What did Bastiat say about two of the most fundamental rights not enumerated in the constitution: universal health care and pre-K daycare
Not a damn thing.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:13 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Why can’t you just discuss this like a normal person? Why are you so intent on being hostile?
Because you don’t debate with intellectual honesty. You state affirmations with no supporting evidence, intentionally mix up different arguments I’ve made to suit you, and willfully ignore questions which disrupt your presumptions. It’s insulting.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:14 pm to UtahCajun
quote:
Because we are cursed with a higher intelligence that lets us see both the good and the bad in our actions?
There’s a Book called The Denial of Death that was recently recommended to me. It’s on my list of books to read. This is the summary from google
quote:
The Denial of Death is Ernest Becker's Pulitzer Prize-winning 1973 book that argues human civilization and culture are elaborate defense mechanisms against the terror of our own mortality, a concept he calls "immortality projects". Becker posits that humans, uniquely aware of their inevitable death, create symbolic systems like religion, nationalism, and personal achievement to feel heroic and transcend their physical limitations, but this denial also fuels conflict, neurosis, and evil. The book synthesizes psychology, anthropology, and philosophy to explain that much of human behavior, from ambition to warfare, stems from this fundamental fear.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:21 pm to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
are you implying that stealing is also just a construct with respect to value judgment?
If ownership is a social construct, I suppose stealing would be a social construct as well.
quote:
I’m assuming by “ownership” you’re referring to the body of law/ designations we use to clarify/ enforce property rights.
Thanks for asking for clarity. It didn’t occur to me that people would have different concepts of what ownership means. I’m referring to the concept of something belonging to someone indefinitely — even after death, through wills and estates.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:21 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
There’s a Book called The Denial of Death that was recently recommended to me. It’s on my list of books to read. This is the summary from google
That book is trash. You should enjoy it.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:22 pm to Robin Masters
Accusations without evidence are impossible to contest. So I’m sorry you feel that way.
Oh and this isn’t a debate. It’s a discussion.
Oh and this isn’t a debate. It’s a discussion.
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:23 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
SallysHuman
Damn. You must really want her attention today.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:24 pm to Jorts R Us
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:26 pm to Jorts R Us
quote:
Damn. You must really want her attention today.
Seriously, that book she referenced is absolute junk. Pinky promise.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:26 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Like which ones? Elephants? Dolphins?
I'm curious about this.
Primates
Canines
Bears
Octopuses
Chimpanzees go so far as to show respect for anothers prior possession.
quote:
I don't claim possession is a social construct.
I would argue that both possession and ownership are cognitive constructs but both constructs occur naturally. I would argue in order for something to be a social construct, it cannot be with the natural order of things - meaning not replicable across all populations.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:29 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Wondering if you view ownership as separate from possession.
I do.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 2:32 pm to SallysHuman
You're a horrible troll. No effort whatsoever.
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