- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
The Law by Frédéric Bastiat
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:26 am
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:26 am
Starting a new thread because the other one keeps getting derailed — or I derailed the other thread and people keep posting about the original premise.
What came first: laws or rights?
Before this he says that we were given force to defend ourselves and our stuff. What if we developed force as a tool for survival but (as humans can’t help doing), we perverted it to use as a means to exploit and harm others?
What came first: laws or rights?
Before this he says that we were given force to defend ourselves and our stuff. What if we developed force as a tool for survival but (as humans can’t help doing), we perverted it to use as a means to exploit and harm others?
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 2:37 pm
24
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:28 am to 4cubbies
quote:
What came first: laws or rights?
In terms of society?
Power begat laws begat religion begat rights
...but agriculture allowed all of this to occur.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:28 am to 4cubbies
Paging @stuntman.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:30 am to 4cubbies
One of my favorite book(let)s...
.... can't wait to see how you muck this up.
.... can't wait to see how you muck this up.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:31 am to SlowFlowPro
Power begat religion? Hmmm.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:33 am to 4cubbies
Get a job
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:34 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Power begat religion? Hmmm.
That's what we saw from Sumer to the Akkadian Empire and all throughout the Bronze Age.
Society learned pretty early if you combined the threat/power of the state with threat/power of religion is was much more effective in ruling over people.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:35 am to 4cubbies
quote:Depends on what you mean by law and by rights. Talking about natural law or positive law? Natural rights or legal rights?
What came first: laws or rights?
From a liberal enlightenment perspective or from a natural law perspective (Bastiat pulls from both)?
There are so many presuppositions in here that I can’t answer your question—especially given your post history; you likely reject both of the liberal, enlightenment and natural law paradigms.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:37 am to 4cubbies
The prime law is the law of the jungle, survival.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:37 am to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
There are so many presuppositions in here that I can’t answer your question
This is true which is why I had to post one specific version of the discussion.
The concept of natural rights is always difficult to discuss because they can't be defined precisely and it creates a moving target and potential for all sorts of fallacies and dishonesty (by changing the definition as the discussion goes around). It has the rhetorical limitations of flowery language.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:37 am to 4cubbies
quote:
What came first: laws or rights?
I think it’s pretty obvious that personal property and autonomy (and the rights to protect them) existed long before anyone codified them into “law”.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:38 am to 4cubbies
Rights are human construct that derive from the creation of laws, which are also a human construct.
What does this have to do with lower IQ people allowing themselves to be conquered and civilized?
What does this have to do with lower IQ people allowing themselves to be conquered and civilized?
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Society learned pretty early if you combined the threat/power of the state with threat/power of religion is was much more effective in ruling over people.
Typical
Early laws were derived directly from biblical teachings.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:40 am to texag7
quote:
Early laws were derived directly from biblical teachings.
The Bible didn't exist when Sumer existed, and their laws were not based in Judaism, which wouldn't exist for thousands of years
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 10:41 am
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:42 am to 4cubbies
4Chubbs fancies herself an intellectual...
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:43 am to Robin Masters
Well yeah. Toddlers have a concept of possession. Possession isn’t perpetual though. Ownership is a made up concept.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Society learned pretty early if you combined the threat/power of the state with threat/power of religion is was much more effective in ruling over people.
That’s not religion. That’s power.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:45 am to texag7
quote:
Early laws were derived directly from biblical teachings
No dude. Earliest laws predate the Bible.
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:46 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Ownership is a made up concept.
Interesting
Posted on 6/22/26 at 10:47 am to 4cubbies
quote:
ell yeah. Toddlers have a concept of possession. Possession isn’t perpetual though. Ownership is a made up concept.
You’re conflating terms now. Possession is not ownership and vice versa.
And if toddlers recognize ownership/possession I think you’ve imploded your notion that they are “constructs”.
Page 1 of 19
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News