- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
0
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:09 am to chalmetteowl
quote:
So Americans can’t get the job done?
Of course they can....but the premium you pay them sometimes isn't worth it.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:10 am to LSU316
quote:
the premium you pay them sometimes isn't worth it.
What do you mean by "worth it"?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:15 am to Sentrius
quote:
You know what's a great example of that greed for big corporations? Boeing and their 737 MAX disaster and outsourcing development of the MAX's software to cheaper $9 dollars an hour Indian engineers.
Our company uses both. There really isn't that much difference in base pay, the big difference is in the cost of the benefits & burdens.
When companies bring in H1B's they typically bring those people on as 3rd party contractors. As a 3rd party contractor, you might make the same $ as the US engineer sitting next to you, but you won't have the same benefits and the tax burden is much lower...resulting in an overall lower cost per hour of the labor. So if we pay $75 for a developer US or H1B, for the US developer, we also have to pay for their benefits (PTO, Medical, etc...) and their statutory tax burden. This can be amount to 17% - 35% additional cost per hour for the US Developer. The H1B guy, just costs us $75 an hour. On large projects this can add up to a lot of dollars of additional cost to hire the US-based resource.
In a competitive bidding environment, you can't go to the table with a price that is 25% higher than everyone else, you'll never win a project. Its just like any other industry with competitive bidding, if your price is too high, you're out of business.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:18 am to Chromdome35
quote:
Our company uses both. There really isn't that much difference in base pay, the big difference is in the cost of the benefits & burdens.
When companies bring in H1B's they typically bring those people on as 3rd party contractors. As a 3rd party contractor, you might make the same $ as the US engineer sitting next to you, but you won't have the same benefits and the tax burden is much lower...resulting in an overall lower cost per hour of the labor. So if we pay $75 for a developer US or H1B, for the US developer, we also have to pay for their benefits (PTO, Medical, etc...) and their statutory tax burden. This can be amount to 17% - 35% additional cost per hour for the US Developer. The H1B guy, just costs us $75 an hour. On large projects this can add up to a lot of dollars of additional cost to hire the US-based resource.
In a competitive bidding environment, you can't go to the table with a price that is 25% higher than everyone else, you'll never win a project. Its just like any other industry with competitive bidding, if your price is too high, you're out of business.
Right. So it's an anti-labor mechanism that has adverse impacts on American labor and subsidized with American tax dollars.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:26 am to Mo Jeaux
Ultimately true, however, unless you do away with all of the existing H1B's. Just temporarily suspending any new ones being issues really isn't doing anything but virtue signaling.
The challenge is that there aren't enough US citizens with these advanced programming skillsets to fill all the available jobs, so H1B's fill the gap.
Could kids in the midwest learn to these skillsets, absolutely; but, they haven't been in sufficient numbers to fill all the available roles. A 6-month ban isn't going to change that at all, you'd have to totally nuke the program to bring about any real change and then it would take a few years for the labor supply to catch up. You don't grow a good software engineer overnight.
Don't misinterpret me, I'm not in support of the H1B program, I would prefer those jobs go to Americans. I'm just telling how it works.
The challenge is that there aren't enough US citizens with these advanced programming skillsets to fill all the available jobs, so H1B's fill the gap.
Could kids in the midwest learn to these skillsets, absolutely; but, they haven't been in sufficient numbers to fill all the available roles. A 6-month ban isn't going to change that at all, you'd have to totally nuke the program to bring about any real change and then it would take a few years for the labor supply to catch up. You don't grow a good software engineer overnight.
Don't misinterpret me, I'm not in support of the H1B program, I would prefer those jobs go to Americans. I'm just telling how it works.
This post was edited on 6/23/20 at 9:28 am
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:32 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Indeed I do. Most Americans don't have the skills or education to do anything in tech but wash the windows and floors.
Most of the world doesn’t have those skills.
However, stating that America can’t effectively fill those jobs is patently false. This is about saving money by firing/not hiring Americans and going with cheap foreign workers.
What you posted is simply an anti-American deflection not based in reality. Nice try.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:52 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
What do you mean by "worth it"?
Amrican demands 150000 to do the job.
H1-B worker commands 80000 to do the job.
Both workers have similar credentials and experience and both interview well enough for the position.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 9:54 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
This is about saving money by firing/not hiring Americans and going with cheap foreign workers.
American's wage demands are getting out of control....but it is normalizing in tech.
I don't fault any company for hiring highly competent H1-B workers over American citizens that demand unreasonable salaries.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:07 am to agregime1
Many tech companies in the last week weeks have announced they are all in on diversity hiring. I know of companies that have said all new hires and promotions will go to diversity hires until they achieve the self imposed ratio.
So the H1B is a way for these companies to get the diversity hires they want and look noble while doing so.
Frick dem.
So the H1B is a way for these companies to get the diversity hires they want and look noble while doing so.
Frick dem.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:13 am to LSU316
quote:
American's wage demands are getting out of control....but it is normalizing in tech.
I don't fault any company for hiring highly competent H1-B workers over American citizens that demand unreasonable salaries.
Knighting for BigTech! Poor, poor Zuckerstein and Twatter. Being taken advantage of by those insidious white collar programmers.Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:26 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Knighting for BigTech! Poor, poor Zuckerstein and Twatter. Being taken advantage of by those insidious white collar programmers.
I knew somebody dumb was gonna show up.
Why should anyone pay any person more than a position is worth?
Regardless I'm not really concerned about Zuckerburg or Elon.....I'm more worried about the 10-15 developer shops in places like Baton Rouge, Lafayette, etc. These shops need to save money wherever they can. It's an easy decision to make to hire H1-B workers....it's a no brainer.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:27 am to tissle
quote:
Do you think the folks on this board understand any of what you said? Most of the folks here have no idea how the tech world works. Their only opinion of it relates how the tech giants are all anti-trump.
I've worked in IT for close to 25 years. I've probably forgot more about tech than you've ever known.
But please, enlighten us on how smart YOU are.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:30 am to LSU316
If you are building a new house and put the construction contract out to bid if all the bids are exactly the same except for price, are you going to choose the highest price contractor?
If the only difference was that the most expensive contractor's crew was 100% American would it change your decision, and would it depend on how much different the price was?
If the only difference was that the most expensive contractor's crew was 100% American would it change your decision, and would it depend on how much different the price was?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:31 am to LSU316
quote:
I knew somebody dumb was gonna show up.
Yes, I'm just a dummy. Please educate me, oh enlightened one. quote:
Why should anyone pay any person more than a position is worth?
Worth? Yes, these companies spend absolutely no money lobbying for their cheap imported labor. Sounds like an absolutely free market! quote:
I'm more worried about the 10-15 developer shops in places like Baton Rouge, Lafayette, etc. These shops need to save money wherever they can. It's an easy decision to make to hire H1-B workers....it's a no brainer.
You're so worried about these small businesses that you support crony capitalism that gives them crumbs and asks them to be thankful.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:33 am to Mo Jeaux
ran out of cop cars to throw molotov cocktails at?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:33 am to agregime1
Always, always follow the money. The dirty little secret is that corporate America uses these H1-B Visas to bring in cheap tech labor and also have control of the employees employment “co tract”. These employees just can’t quit and go to a jib with more pay, their employer has to release them from their contract. Ever wonder why a Sr Enginner from Boston or Cali hasn’t had a raise in 10 yrs and gets laid off yet Microsoft, FB, Google and Apple say there is not enough STEM employees? It’s disgusting. These tech companies pay off Congress to give them their slave tech labor.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:35 am to Bulldogblitz
quote:
ran out of cop cars to throw molotov cocktails at?
What do you mean by this non-sequitur?
Being against a tax-payer supported program that hurts Americans and benefits multi-national corporations is somehow anti-American?
This is why we need you boomer "conservatives" to go away as quickly as possible.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:35 am to Pechon
quote:
I've worked in IT for close to 25 years. I've probably forgot more about tech than you've ever known.
Newb
Posted on 6/23/20 at 10:40 am to LSU316
quote:
unreasonable salaries.
You are worth what someone is willing to pay you. In short, other options existed to lower labor costs WITH American labor, but were generally dismissed simply because foreign workers are willing to work for lower (in some cases MUCH lower) wages. As noted above, an example would be the Philippine workers on oil rigs (who, ironically, typically took the place of black workers earning a decent wage).
I have seen rationalizations for the HB-1 visa program, but none of those rationalizations pass scrutiny. As noted, this was a program put in place to frick over American’s (by Congress). There simply is no justification for it to legitimately exist in the manner that it currently does.
Page 4 of 13
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News