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re: The Economic Breakdown of Rural vs Urban America
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:45 pm to volod
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:45 pm to volod
quote:
The issue is they compare Baton Rouge to places like New Orleans, Atlanta, Dallas, and Orlando.
That's not what you said. You said people are calling BR "country."
I don't think folks are comparing BR to Dallas in an equitable sense other than them both being urban areas.
1
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:52 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Okay. That's fair. But I'm not the one making those comparisons. I know full well BR is urban.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:59 pm to ShortyRob
quote:quote:
Capitalism feeds and encourages selfishness for the most part.
Nope. The biggest problem is the reality that the bell curve of results will always exist in any system, even the best because the bell curve of ability will always exist.
You're both right.
Capitalism exists because it feeds the very natural desire of all creatures to obtain things of need (or even of just perceived need) and works far better than other systems because there is the instant obtaining for both sides of the transaction since each is giving something to the other.
It does indeed feed selfishness but that's why any capitalist system has to have some framework of laws in which to operate otherwise you end up with anything from Darwinism to monopolies.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:32 pm to volod
This had potential to be a great thread, but in my quick skim of your OP I see no objective reasons given for the difference, only data showing the difference.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:48 pm to Nguyener
quote:
Objectively: We live in a representational dual federalist Republic made up of states and a federal government. We do not live in a democracy and we do not have majority population rule in federal government. Deal with it. Our system of government is not set up to be dependent on population density of a given area. It is set up to balance power and decision making across a range of factors throughout the United States.
Oh you. One of my favorite posters.
I fully acknowledge we are a representative democracy. My concern with our system is that Representatives are not answerable to the populace that elects them and instead differ to big corps and noblesse families that desire outcomes counter to the will of constituency. We dont need a new system of government, but a system of political accountability for failure.
quote:
Further: while robots are taking unskilled low level manufacturing jobs, there are plenty of labor jobs that can be had in infrastructure as well as the management, maintenence, etc... Of the robots in those factories.
I'm be the first to admit I haven't worked with robotics in a manufacturing environment. However, I do realize the technical level of expertise required usually requires some form of formalized education. A good vocational program would do depending on complexity of tasks.
That said, the people A (assuming these are uneducated working class) would have less skill than people B (who would be skilled laborers with some certification). So the unskilled workers would be left out of a job with no way to make a sustainable living (above minimum wage).
quote:
To use an analogy: if a city is made up of 2 plots of land, one farm and one hotel/business center, and the farm which feeds and nurishes the entire population has 1 owner and 5 workers and the business center (which consumes and sells the goods produced by the farm) has 1500 people in it, then what is a better system of government? Popular vote, or a representative system whereby the needs of the farm and the needs of the business center are equal despite unequal population numbers?
In your scenario, I can see that the farmer needs equal representation. But I will ask this: Is the farmer also reaping benefits from the business center. The farmer is surely getting royalties from his products being sold. I'll make some assumptions that the farmer has utilities which get serviced by the other half. Probably gets other services performed, but I think you hey the idea.
Everyone benefits in some fashion from our system of government. I'm not debunking that farmer needs equal representation. I will debunk that he's the only productive member providing for that society.
quote:
rther, as technology increases, so too will the ability to telecommute and work from home and we are already seeing a shift back to rural living in some sectors where you don't need to go to an office everyday
While this is a growing trend in Tech, the battle is going to be in talent location and corporate acceptance.
Businesses house themselves in areas where they know the talent pool is large enough. That's the biggest problem going against rural areas (I'm talking Anacoco, Leesville, Simpson in LA and Rusk, Reklaw in TX variety)
Corporate acceptance ironically is a factor of Baby Boomers and Gen X. The people who own corporations want their workers on site. Maybe young blood in power will change their attitudes like you said.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:59 pm to BurningHeart
I was running out of space and time.
But if leave away with anything, know this. I dont hold anything against people who are angry about their economic woes, but people do need to realize that it's not like executives implicitly hate them. It's just better for businesses to leave because they found a better model than being in small rural towns.
If you saw the decline in manufacturing jobs graph, you'd know this has been going on LONG BEFORE the past 10 years.
I think their is some truth in that many people are afraid to embrace the future as our economy modernizes. Which is a shame because their are PLENTY of trade based jobs centered on technology
But if leave away with anything, know this. I dont hold anything against people who are angry about their economic woes, but people do need to realize that it's not like executives implicitly hate them. It's just better for businesses to leave because they found a better model than being in small rural towns.
If you saw the decline in manufacturing jobs graph, you'd know this has been going on LONG BEFORE the past 10 years.
I think their is some truth in that many people are afraid to embrace the future as our economy modernizes. Which is a shame because their are PLENTY of trade based jobs centered on technology
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 10/30/18 at 2:30 pm to volod
quote:
It's just better for businesses to leave because they found a better model than being in small rural towns.
The question comes down to WHY is it better?
Remember, the competition these rural towns have for manufacturing isn't really cities, but overseas sweat shops in China, India, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Taiwan, etc. The costs of shipping large quantities of goods across vast oceans is immense, especially when the buyers of the product live in said small town.
The question comes to what factors contribute to making manufacturing overseas less expensive? Is it purely because laborers overseas are making that much less or does our federal government enact policies that make producing goods here arbitrarily more difficult and importing goods from China less difficult?
The democratic party for years screamed about FAIR Trade. They shouted about how countries like China and Mexico were abusing child slave labor in sweatshops while the U.S. government gave them tax breaks and blue collar union tradesmen lost their jobs.
Is overseas simply cheaper or is our government incentivizing outsourcing through subsidies, non-reciprocal tariffs, over-burdensome environmental/safety regulations, and the tax code?
Trump took up this cause, so those rural voters took up his.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 2:41 pm to Wtodd
quote:
IMO (and no I don't have any facts to back this up) Reps will move far more often than Dems to find a job.
I don't even have an anecdotal opinion on this. What makes you think that?
Posted on 10/30/18 at 2:48 pm to beerJeep
quote:
I’d wager they aren’t faults of the capitalist system, but rather faults on the individual.
Well, one might argue that the system allows for the individual's faults have much more impact than in other systems. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but one could argue that there are various positions of power:
1. Political
2. Spiritual
3. Financial
In a lot of systems, you cannot have #3 unless you already had #1 or #2; in a capitalist system, one or both tends to sacrifice some of their power for the #3 group to elevate on their own.
In a Communist/Socialist society, you're "wealthy" if you are part of the Communist Party and hold political power. You can *almost* never accumulate wealth outside of that. (China managed to cultivate a middle class in a "communist" society, but these days I would almost define China as a wholly new, hybrid system).
In a Democratic/Socialist society, #3 exists but is held to lower conveyances of power than they would otherwise obtain.
In a Democratic/Capitalistic society, #3 can achieve heights that even #1 and #2 cannot. This leads to #1 and #2 to try and add themselves to #3 - which can lead to corruption, but it is no "less" corruption than in the other societies, only a different kind.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:13 pm to skrayper
quote:
I don't even have an anecdotal opinion on this. What makes you think that?
He probably refers to the Cali to Texas migration. Same with the New York to Other Southern states migration.
Not sure just guessing. But the issue at hand is two fold.
Most Southern people dont leave for the north because they are already poor and they will pay more with inflation.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 10/30/18 at 9:54 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
My knee jerk based upon movement patters within the U.S. is that there is more movement from Blue to Red than vice versa.
I see way more folks, black and white, moving out of inner cities, like baton rouge, to places like ascension parish, st. James parish, due to more and better jobs.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 9:58 pm to Wtodd
quote:
Sam Kinison had it right - move to where the jobs are.
I've never understood why people would rather be dirt poor in NY vs a comfortable living in say, Scottsdale, AZ.
Its a concrete jungle and totally inconvenient if you don't have tons of money for transportation. Irresponsible to stay there is impoverished.
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