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re: The cops are looking worse and worse here
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:18 pm to captdalton
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:18 pm to captdalton
quote:The MN chief testified against Derek Chauvin.
I do. I can not ever, not one time, remember when a police union didn’t support the officer, in any situation, no matter how out of line. Not once. If you can refute that with an example please do
quote:Police unions are among the weakest of any labor unions. Police cannot strike which, as you know, are some of any union's biggest "teeth" so to speak.
And since, as far as I am aware, every cop is a member of their union, and the union represents all the cops, I stand by my statement of “all cops”.
quote:LINK ]This is sworn testimony. As solid as it gets.
Again, my mind could be swayed from the “all cops” part if you could actually provide an example of a union saying “Officer Doe was out of line, he doesn’t represent us and should face repercussions for their unjust actions”. Just one documented case.
The man's boss gave sworn testimony that what he did was out of pocket.
LINK ]One rookie officer even told Chauvin to stop and the other suggested putting him into a recovery position.
So between two officers speaking up during the situation and the chief testifying against his own man, you cannot say "all cops".
2
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:24 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
is forming at least a 2-man cell
Were there not 2 people there?
I get the chaos part; I do. But you're trying to avoid the worst outcome, right? If that outcome is already happening, kids being executed, violence of action can only improve the situation.
Again, I don't know if shots were actively being fired while they tried to stick to their protocol, but if shots inside a school are being fired while they wait to follow some scripted plan they were wrong. All kinds of wrong.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:28 pm to Flats
quote:Yup, I have no clue how it all unfolded. I'm not inclined to believe what's being put out there - not yet, at least.
Were there not 2 people there?
I get the chaos part; I do. But you're trying to avoid the worst outcome, right? If that outcome is already happening, kids being executed, violence of action can only improve the situation.
Again, I don't know if shots were actively being fired while they tried to stick to their protocol, but if shots inside a school are being fired while they wait to follow some scripted plan they were wrong. All kinds of wrong.
And let me also say that I'm not claiming that's why they were waiting. I think it was in another thread, but my belief - based on what we "know" right now - is that this is an example of gross unpreparedness. Maybe analysis paralysis. I don't know.
But as soon as more than officer was on site, my position is that that should have been go time. Not the hour plus that it appears to be.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:29 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
I'm not tracking. Who would be outnumbered? The shooter or the officer?
Seriously?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:29 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
Well, I guess I won’t say all. i will change it to the vast majority. But with that said, Chauvin’s defense was funded by the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association. And where do they get their funding? From police unions in the state. So isn’t that quit the conundrum. The officers who testified against him also paid, even if in the most minute amount, for his defense.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:31 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
"Uvalde Shooter Fired Outside School for 12 Minutes Before Entering"
WSJ Link
According to this new timeline
11:28am - Ramos crashes the truck into the ditch by the school, began shooting at people at the funeral home across the street
11:30am - 911 call reporting a gunman at the school
Ramos climbs an 8ft fence around the school and is firing the weapon on school grounds before walking inside, unimpeded at 11:40am
11:44am first police arrive on scene and exchange gunfire
Why did it take 14 MINUTES for the police to arrive after a 911 call reporting a shooter at an elementary school?!
Why were there unlocked school doors and classroom doors 10 MINUTES after a man has been shooting a gun at a school?!?!
WSJ Link
According to this new timeline
11:28am - Ramos crashes the truck into the ditch by the school, began shooting at people at the funeral home across the street
11:30am - 911 call reporting a gunman at the school
Ramos climbs an 8ft fence around the school and is firing the weapon on school grounds before walking inside, unimpeded at 11:40am
11:44am first police arrive on scene and exchange gunfire
Why did it take 14 MINUTES for the police to arrive after a 911 call reporting a shooter at an elementary school?!
Why were there unlocked school doors and classroom doors 10 MINUTES after a man has been shooting a gun at a school?!?!
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:31 pm to Powerman
quote:Well that poster just threw out a bunch of "he" and "him". Pronouns without association are difficult to track.
Seriously?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:33 pm to Flats
quote:
. But you're trying to avoid the worst outcome, right? If that outcome is already happening, kids being executed, violence of action can only improve the situation.
This is probably true. Yet a few people defend inaction. I don't get it. I guess the employee handbook was more important. These officers were cowards and not heroes
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:35 pm to captdalton
quote:So not all. That's all I was saying.
Well, I guess I won’t say all. i will change it to the vast majority. But with that said, Chauvin’s defense was funded by the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association. And where do they get their funding? From police unions in the state. So isn’t that quit the conundrum. The officers who testified against him also paid, even if in the most minute amount, for his defense.
As far as Chauvin's first attorney being paid for by the POA, well...I mean he paid for it. Regardless of the situation, he was being rendered a service for which he paid.
Not the most perfect situation, but everyone is entitled to a defense - perhaps no one more so than someone who has paid for it.
If it softens things, he will have to pay for the attorney in his appeals case out of pocket I think.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:36 pm to Lightning
quote:I'm with you.
"Uvalde Shooter Fired Outside School for 12 Minutes Before Entering"
WSJ Link
According to this new timeline
11:28am - Ramos crashes the truck into the ditch by the school, began shooting at people at the funeral home across the street
11:30am - 911 call reporting a gunman at the school
Ramos climbs an 8ft fence around the school and is firing the weapon on school grounds before walking inside, unimpeded at 11:40am
11:44am first police arrive on scene and exchange gunfire
Why did it take 14 MINUTES for the police to arrive after a 911 call reporting a shooter at an elementary school?!
Why were there unlocked school doors and classroom doors 10 MINUTES after a man has been shooting a gun at a school?!?!
As I said earlier, a SRO, a locked door and a plan for when things go south may have made all the difference here.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:37 pm to Powerman
quote:Really? Who is defending the hour plus inaction?
This is probably true. Yet a few people defend inaction. I don't get it. I guess the employee handbook was more important. These officers were cowards and not heroes
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:40 pm to Lightning
quote:
Cops had parents down on the ground and tasers out to keep them from rushing the school.
When did the expectation become that parents get to run into the school?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:43 pm to NoSaint
quote:
When did the expectation become that parents get to run into the school?
It’s bravado. Setting a perimeter and keeping civilians out is smart.
The shooter was already engaged.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:45 pm to NoSaint
quote:
When did the expectation become that parents get to run into the school?
When no one else would and kids were dying inside.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:47 pm to Lightning
quote:
When no one else would and kids were dying inside.
The kids were dead and the shooter was engaged.
FIFY
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 9:48 pm
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:51 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
OK this keeps getting weirder...
Pull up Google maps and find Robb Elementary.
Now find Uvalde police department.
It's .8 miles away.
Why did it take 14 minutes from the 911 call to get an officer to the school?
Hell even without the 911 call, the officers at the station could have likely heard the shots being fired at the funeral home and at the school. They were less than a mile away.
Pull up Google maps and find Robb Elementary.
Now find Uvalde police department.
It's .8 miles away.
Why did it take 14 minutes from the 911 call to get an officer to the school?
Hell even without the 911 call, the officers at the station could have likely heard the shots being fired at the funeral home and at the school. They were less than a mile away.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:55 pm to bisonduck
quote:
The kids were dead and the shooter was engaged.
FIFY
No, all of the kids were NOT dead. At least one girl didn't get shot until the cops told her to yell for help, so she did and got shot for her efforts.
Another kid reportedly laid on top of a shot child who was still breathing but later died in the classroom.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:55 pm to Crimsonians
I’ll just be crystal clear on this. I value kids lives over cops lives in this particular scenario. 18 cops dead and no kids dead I think it’s a win. I side with cops almost always but kids sit atop that pyramid
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:57 pm to Lightning
quote:Not arguing with you...but just some things to consider.
OK this keeps getting weirder...
Pull up Google maps and find Robb Elementary.
Now find Uvalde police department.
It's .8 miles away.
Why did it take 14 minutes from the 911 call to get an officer to the school?
Hell even without the 911 call, the officers at the station could have likely heard the shots being fired at the funeral home and at the school. They were less than a mile away.
How many were on duty at the time of the call? I first heard things like "Uvalde is as rural as it gets" but then we see a SWAT team with a dozen operators. For reference, I've worked in tandem with several departments that have about a 12:1 sworn to SRT ratio - and those sworn numbers include brass and detectives. So maybe it was closer to 10:1. Scale that for Uvalde and you get a patrol body of 144? Doubtful.
Awful large response team for a small town.
I hope questions like these keep getting asked by the MSM. I think everyone deserves an answer.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 11:18 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
How did US Marshall's get from San Antonio so fast? 1.5 hour drive
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