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re: The basis of western civilization is that human life has intrinsic value
Posted on 9/15/24 at 6:32 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 9/15/24 at 6:32 pm to 4cubbies
You perfectly exemplify the modern leftist. You live comfortably in a modern western society while constantly shitting on it. You believe the west should always flagellate itself and, as penance, open its borders and transform itself.
Meanwhile, no other society on earth has ever offered anything better.
Meanwhile, no other society on earth has ever offered anything better.
0
Posted on 9/15/24 at 6:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
society respected the intrinsic value of a human, as you claimed, wouldn’t they see that women are deserving of controlling their own money just as men were? Or is there an exception for women that you failed to mentio
Just so I’m understanding your position, it’s your assertion that the reason banks wouldn’t loan their money to women in the 70s was because they didn’t value human life?
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:41 pm to Robin Masters
I’m saying that if society believes in the intrinsic value of every human, certain groups of people would not be discriminated against.
Are you saying that a society that does value every single life also discriminates against certain demographics?
Are you saying that a society that does value every single life also discriminates against certain demographics?
This post was edited on 9/15/24 at 7:44 pm
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:46 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
...slaves. Women...
It's a good point, but he's still correct.
This country (as well as every other country on the planet I am aware of at the time) ignored our own ideals. For a long time.
And you know how we did it?
By denying that the oppressed groups were fully human. Just like we do with the last oppressed group left...the unborn.
We believed in the worth of human beings, we just went to all kinds of lengths to prove/maintain/insist that certain people weren't fully human.
Juuuuuuusssssst like we do with unborn humans now.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:47 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
People thought slavery was wrong while it was happening.
Just like people know that killing unborn human beings is wrong now.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
If society respected the intrinsic value of a human, as you claimed, wouldn’t they see that women are deserving of controlling their own money just as men were?
But that's the thing.
Do you understand how that law worked?
The reason women couldn't open their own account is because their husbands or fathers were legally responsible for their financial decisions. If they opened an account and spent a bunch of money they didn't have/charged a bunch of stuff that they couldn't pay for, their husbands/fathers were responsible for it.
I would argue that women is a different argument. There was never a time in US history in which women's lives were expendable or didn't have intrinsic value. When you could kill a woman and not face trial for it, for example. When you could kidnap and enslave a woman.
Remember the thread title.
Women's lives were valued, but they were expected to occupy a different societal role than men.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:56 pm to Robin Masters
I would argue that abortion is more evil than slavery.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 7:59 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
I would argue that abortion is more evil than slavery.
Why? Do you rate the value of every life?
Either someone is born with human dignity or they are not. It is not measurable on a scale. Everyone has it or no one does.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:03 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
By denying that the oppressed groups were fully human. Just like we do with the last oppressed group left...the unborn.
We believed in the worth of human beings, we just went to all kinds of lengths to prove/maintain/insist that certain people weren't fully human.
Juuuuuuusssssst like we do with unborn humans now.
It’s wrong in every case. Although I’m not sure women were ever viewed as not fully human.. not sure what the justification for discriminating against them for so long was.
I’m not arguing that unborn babies don’t have intrinsic value, I’m arguing that western society was never built on respecting the dignity of human life.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:04 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Not in the slightest. This patently is false. Western society still doesn’t believe all lives have value.
bullshite
quote:
This country was built by slaves. Women couldn’t even open their own bank accounts until what, the 1970s?
what about today - the great thing about 'western society' is that we have always taken whatever was handed to us at birth and tried to improve it.
Until the marxist democrats came along that seemed to work pretty good in the long run.
You make the mistake of thinking that right NOW - today - you have absolute knowledge of what is best for humanity extending out to eternity. You think you can achieve perfect society NOW. that is - and always will be - a practical impossibility.
The great flaw in your thinking is that some of the things you want NOW are patently stupid - letting preteens determine whether or not they want to have surgeries that irrevocably changes their physiology for the rest of their lives.
Your group is ruled by instant gratification for every silly thought that enters your minds.
Humanity as it exists today by evolving from single celled life-forms by a slow process of 'survival of the fittest' - IF there had been a big old Democrat cell in charge then, we'd all still be living in swamp water waiting for the rain to wash some nutrition over us.
As in nature - diversity is a great agent for change - but ONLY if you allow unproductive forms to die out. Otherwise you all end up as equal parasites.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:05 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
This country was built by slaves
LOL
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:05 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Are you saying that a society that does value every single life also discriminates against certain demographics?
It’s not “society”. It’s a bank deciding with whom they want to go into business.
If I go to Amex and demand a Black Card can I claim they don’t value human life when they tell me to pound sand?
This is absurd position. Even for you.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:05 pm to Robin Masters
Why do you think they are overrunning the West with people who don't give a shite about the sanctity of human life?
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:08 pm to Robin Masters
The sermon today at church was about the parable of the Good Samaritan, which ultimately concludes the statement in the OP
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:09 pm to 4cubbies
quote:no it wasn't you just believing the emotional stories you've been told
This country was built by slaves. Women couldn’t even open their own bank accounts until what, the 1970s?
What slaves expanded our nation from coast to coast
it was oppressed poor people from Europe and Asia and yes the former slaves that moved west
who fled the oppression in other lands that came to America to seek the right to define themselves because this country allows them and you to do that
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:10 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
If I go to Amex and demand a Black Card can I claim they don’t value human life when they tell me to pound sand?
There you go again - engaging in logical thinking.
you'll never get anywhere with a progstain unless you can discard all moral attributes and cave to whatever their leadership thinks they should be angry about today.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:20 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Either someone is born
Hmmmm....
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:21 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
you'll never get anywhere with a progstain unless you can discard all moral attributes and cave to whatever their leadership thinks they should be angry about today.
They are so entitled. They think whatever is yours should be theirs with no questions. And if you have the temerity to refuse then you are the greedy racist, misogynist, bigot, et al, not them for demanding you surrender what you’ve worked for.
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:23 pm to 4cubbies
Allow me to ask you a question
humankind is humankind so let's accept that our culture and others and human civilization have required time to mature and grow
While recognizing that life itself was very very hard until very very recently look at the child mortality rate just 100 years ago, And that few, very few other than the very rich had rights. Universal voting itself wasn't extended the the middle class in Britain until the 1830s
And that privilege of wealth beyond voting extended to women.
You seem to be so anti-western civilization then please tell me what society has furthered the rights of women or the enslaved better than Western civilization
And if you want to come back and say Well you're not anti-Western civilization you just don't think it's all that great
again I would say then who's done it better?
please say native Americans
humankind is humankind so let's accept that our culture and others and human civilization have required time to mature and grow
While recognizing that life itself was very very hard until very very recently look at the child mortality rate just 100 years ago, And that few, very few other than the very rich had rights. Universal voting itself wasn't extended the the middle class in Britain until the 1830s
And that privilege of wealth beyond voting extended to women.
You seem to be so anti-western civilization then please tell me what society has furthered the rights of women or the enslaved better than Western civilization
And if you want to come back and say Well you're not anti-Western civilization you just don't think it's all that great
again I would say then who's done it better?
please say native Americans
Posted on 9/15/24 at 8:23 pm to Robin Masters
I’d offer that the US and the West generally have pursued what you describe domestically while engaging in utter barbarism in their foreign policy. Take the Ukraine war, which y’all all rightly oppose. I’d add Israel’s actions as well, which is only possible because of US support, but I accept there’s a lot of resistance to that idea on the right. Colonialism more broadly. Clearing the way for bananas and coffee for the privileged. I’m not trying to attack what you described, but it’s high time we applied that idea to humans all over the globe, not just those lucky enough to be secure behind our fence line.
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