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Message
re: The Anti Populist Crowd
Posted on 4/27/24 at 5:55 am to RiverCityTider
Posted on 4/27/24 at 5:55 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
I don't know a single MAGA who supports deficit spending
If you concentrate, and think REALLY HARD, you MIGHT come up with one name.
0
Posted on 4/27/24 at 6:09 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Populists are Constitutionalists who believe in freedom and free enterprise and are against a permanent bureaucratic state and it's corporate co-conspirators. Populists also believe in US soverignty and legal immigration that promotes prosperity. Populists believe in fiscal responsibility and monetary policy that promotes a stable currency. Populists believe in smaller , more limited government. Populists believe in a foreign policy which is non-interventionist. Populists believe in free trade to the extent that it is fair. Populists. for the most part, consider Climate Change to be hoax an international conspiracy to reduce population, freedom, and quality of life. Populists believe the government often engages in misinformation and conspires with corporations to limit free speech. Populist believe unequal justice is the rule of the day.
That is not populism. Those may be things you believe which is fine, but you can’t just call it populism.
Populists are Constitutionalists who believe in freedom and free enterprise and are against a permanent bureaucratic state and it's corporate co-conspirators. Populists also believe in US soverignty and legal immigration that promotes prosperity. Populists believe in fiscal responsibility and monetary policy that promotes a stable currency. Populists believe in smaller , more limited government. Populists believe in a foreign policy which is non-interventionist. Populists believe in free trade to the extent that it is fair. Populists. for the most part, consider Climate Change to be hoax an international conspiracy to reduce population, freedom, and quality of life. Populists believe the government often engages in misinformation and conspires with corporations to limit free speech. Populist believe unequal justice is the rule of the day.
That is not populism. Those may be things you believe which is fine, but you can’t just call it populism.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:16 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
traditional conservatives" who don't know about or understand the deep state
This is an oxymoron. Anyone who is a traditional conservative (Jeffersonian) advocates for a decentralized government.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:25 am to davyjones
quote:
I guess what subtly getting at with that particular response from me (not directed at you, mind you) is that much like numerous other concepts and labels and such is that very seldom if ever is every person involved in those discussions and skirmishes on the same page as far as what the concept or label means, i.e. a “universally” accepted definition of the term even if only for that specific conversation. The term is often used as an insult in some peoples’ minds without knowing any substantive context of the matter. So it’s just difficult if not impossible to have an actual legitimate discussion on this and similar topics.
Most folks who participate in discussion of this topic aren’t even aware that there are numerous subcategories of “populism,” all across the political spectrum, yet the idea is thrown around as if it were a singular, narrow concept that applies almost exclusively to a single subset of voters.
Oh, good grief.
Scotts have 421 words for "snow" to describe various fine subtleties in the phenomenon. Yet every preschooler in the US knows it when they see it with only a one word snow vocabulary.
This isn't a difficult, mysterious topic, and unlike what many are claiming here, it's been very clearly differentiated from being just another term for MAGA (although MAGA is 100% populist). I do it almost every time I post on the subject.
The reason people here are confused is:
1. No one comes here for actual serious discussion. Myself included. The OP included. There's plenty of snark in his post to signal that he's not interested in a real discussion about this and his supposed probing question has a "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" quality to it.
People barely read what is posted here and they CERTAINLY don't read what is linked here. They mostly come here to insult others.
2. Populism inherently attracts people who aren't the best and brightest intellectuals on the planet. It is a philosophy for common people with common intellects. Which is exactly why #1 above is true. It's also why there is so much blindly tribal, emotive and reactive, binary thinking here. It’s why probably dozens of people will downvote this post without commenting on it. It’s why at least someone will respond dismissing it because of the length of it, or claim it is a “word salad,” when in reality they simply don’t have the intellect to comprehend it (and they know it).
3. People who are confused about this are confused in the first lace because they also don't understand what "conservatism" means. They think anybody who hates AOC is a conservative.
If anybody wants to know what I mean when I say the word "populist," I've posted it many times before, but here it is again. A populist:
1. Defines life according to being a victim of The Man. Populists on the left define The Man as "institutional racism," or "white people," or "oppressors," or "colonizers" or "The 1% (remember when that Boogey Man was popular?"
Populists on the right define The Man as "The Deep State," "The Establishment (just like hippies in the 60s)," "The Global Elite," "The GOPe," "The Swamp," etc.
The "nuances" you speak of are only differences in the definition of who the Boogey Man is supposed to be. The commonality is that whoever that Boogey Man is supposed to be, a populist explains everything that happens in terms of that Boogey Man.
A populist on the left explains the fact that black men go to prison at a much higher rate than white men entirely in terms of institutional racism. A populist on the right explains the fact that Trump (who barely won the 2016 election by only around 200,000 votes, as I have explained before) lost the 2020 election entirely in terms of massive cheating by the Deep State to the tune of tens of millions of fake ballots.
The Man the explanation for everything, and everything gets blamed on The Man.
That doesn't mean there's no truth to any populist claims, but that’s a discussion for another day. The point is that a populist is quick to take a small grain of truth and blow it up into Mount Vesuvius.
PART II TO FOLLOW
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:25 am to wackatimesthree
PART II
2. A populist is willing...nay, eager...to believe ANY and ALL conspiracy theories that support the narrative of victimhood, no matter how outlandish.
Though I'm sure someone will deny it, there were rightist populists here who actually claimed during the Iowa caucus that the "Deep State" had caused the weather to be bad to suppress voter turnout because they thought it would hurt Tump's numbers. Yes, that happened.
As I almost always provide, here's an eerily similar example from the left. Remember Hurricane Katrina? Remember some black people back then claiming that the government caused the hurricane so that Bush could kill some black people? Yep. That happened too.
The takeaway is that populism produces people willing to believe ANYTHING...even something as stupid as the government can control the fricking weather. Left or right, doesn't matter.
Black people have been convinced for decades that the government intentionally sent crack into black neighborhoods to enslave them. Populists on the right are convinced in April 2024 that Biden is allowing illegals into the country to arm them and enlist them in subduing and enslaving the American population.
This is dangerous. Do I need to explain why?
3. A populist has no true basis for determining or advocating for public policy. There are no core principles to follow. In fact, a populist openly scoffs at core political principles. Which is why a populist on the right in 2024 America shares a foreign policy viewpoint with Jimmy Carter, an immigration policy with Pat Buchanan, trade policies with Bernie Sanders, and likes Vladimir Putin. It's why populists want the government to stay out of everybody's business sometimes, but not when they want the government to intervene to stop an employer from requiring a COVID vaccine. It's the same reason conservatives have long scratched their heads about the black community voting 90% Democrat when black people reject most of the values the Democratic Party espouses. It's because they have long been populists and Republicans are part of The Man for them.
A populist doesn't care much about constitutional principles and is quick to abandon them if adhering to them gets in the way of sticking it to The Man. Which is why young people today would abolish the 1st Amendment if they could. "Oppressors" saying things they don't like is a bigger issue to them than preserving the 1st.
"White privilege" is a very populist idea. "Leveling the playing field" for a leftist populist is more important than preserving equal justice under the law.
Likewise, populists on the right want government to regulate private companies they don't feel are "fair" when providing a platform for online speech (they are private companies, they have no obligation to be fair).
In short, populism produces people for whom the end justifies any means. There are no limits to what they will abandon to see their agenda through, and there is no thought given to what happens down the road if those principles are abandoned today and the absence of them shows up in a different context.
This is dangerous. Do I need to explain why?
4. Populism—because it revolves entirely around being a victim of The Man and relies heavily upon outlandish conspiracy theories to maintain the narrative—breeds unrealistic and disproportionate levels of discontent.
We have, in 2024, a society with the least racism, most civil rights, best quality of life for the most people, most opportunity, highest degree of freedom, basically the most comfortable lives, of any society that has ever existed on this planet.
Yet populism has produced a climate in which large numbers of people on both sides of the aisle have concluded that our system is so broken that it literally needs to be torn down. Rarely a month goes by here that someone doesn’t post that we need to toss out the constitution and tear down the government.
And we’re not just talking about poor people (who are almost destined to be populists). We’re talking about people who will rail about that on their state of the art computers online at work, then go get in their $75,000 truck and drive home to their 3,000 square foot McMansion while sipping a latte they made on their machine at home sitting in their hot tub.
This is dangerous. Do I need to explain why?
So yes, I am anti-populist. I think it’s dangerous. I KNOW it’s dangerous. Change my mind.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:32 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
I've noticed recently that the anti-populist crowd has become sort of emboldened.
Populism is a collective ideal.
Every single person on the right should fight it. It leads you to socialism.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:38 am to dgnx6
quote:
Talking about Roger. This dude is blaming a bunch of 30 year olds for ruining the country
Youre dumber than I thought.
Link this up. MAGAts cant talk without lying.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:42 am to Tandemjay
quote:
populism is putting your countries interest first.
^^^ this ^^^
The US Constitution made this country great ….. nothing wrong with returning to the cornerstone of greatness
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:43 am to cadillacattack
quote:
populism is putting your countries interest first.
^^^ this ^^^
It has nothing to do with populism.
Populism is the underbelly of Democracy. Its where all collective evil emanates.
Be an individual, not a collective mob.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:44 am to RiverCityTider
Anti-populist do not believe in nationalism. Whereas, I believe a nation must be very strong and foundationally solid before it can help others.
I know for a fact I am a populist. Of course, they will claim MAGA to be populist in an attempt to smear MAGA. Even a person can not help others without first being strong enough to help themselves.
Have you ever worked for a poor man?
I know for a fact I am a populist. Of course, they will claim MAGA to be populist in an attempt to smear MAGA. Even a person can not help others without first being strong enough to help themselves.
Have you ever worked for a poor man?
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:46 am to Timeoday
quote:
Anti-populist do not believe in nationalism.
Y'all have no clue what populism means.
a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups:
Its a victim complex.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:50 am to RiverCityTider
If anti-populism becomes popular,
wouldn't that make it populist?
Posted on 4/27/24 at 7:55 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Scotts have 421 words for "snow" to describe various fine subtleties in the phenomenon. Yet every preschooler in the US knows it when they see it with only a one word snow vocabulary.
Well, if this were a weather related discussion forum I feel certain that the nuances of snow would come into play. But of course it’s instead a political discussion forum where the nuances of “populism” are indeed squarely on the table for discussion and debate, and as you can see I was exactly correct about the unsettled nature of what populism even is, and most people proceed with their own personal interpretation and version of the concept and presume that theirs is right and everyone else’s is wrong.
Thus, pretty much back to square one.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:00 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded
What if it's more than a feeling?
What if you are actually getting fricked by government?
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:04 am to TrueTiger
quote:
What if it's more than a feeling?
Government favors the wealthy. We all know that. However, the rest of us are complicit and are not victims in any way shape or form.
We love those people. We continually put them in office election after election. The "elite" arent the problem, the stupidity of the average person is the problem.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:12 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
We continually put them in office election after election. The "elite" arent the problem, the stupidity of the average person is the problem.
I too, think universal suffrage is a terrible idea.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:17 am to TrueTiger
quote:
I too, think universal suffrage is a terrible idea.
There is nothing to hold most women accountable for their own actions. Men have become soft and literally given up power.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:17 am to wackatimesthree
Good 2-part post. I would just add the dimension that populism takes its authority to come from "the people" but when counted, populists typically amount to a minority of the whole population. They sometimes try to elide this by squinting at the whole population and defining the people down to "the true people", "virtuous people" who are in the coalition advancing the populist framing. So, it's basically a way of a minoritarian politics to claim a sense of legitimacy as being majoritarian.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:19 am to TigerDoc
quote:
populism takes its authority to come from "the people" but when counted, populists typically amount to a minority of the whole population.
Indeed.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:21 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Men have become soft and literally given up power.
I too, believe that the Proud Boys were unfairly maligned.
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