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re: Stunning Admission By Renowned Atheist; Decline of Christianity is Hurting Society
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:12 am to Perfect Circle
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:12 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
I'm convinced our brains are "hardwired" to believe in something greater than ourselves. Every society has this belief.
The Marine Corps instilled a belief in something greater than the individual Marine. That doesn't mean every DI is a god.
1
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:14 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Self-preservation.
Which is why "self-preservation" and "altruism" are mutually exclusive.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:15 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
I'm convinced our brains are "hardwired" to believe in something greater than ourselves. Every society has this belief.
Or people, when they lack understanding, often fill gaps of knowledge with superstition.
Let's not ignore all of the very crazy, non-religious, things those very same societies also believed.
The human brain is wired to find patterns in nature, to make as much sense of nature as possible because patterns allow us to more accurately predict the future and that allows us to make better decisions and increases our odds of survival.
When we have gaps on knowledge, at least historically, we've filled those gaps with superstition. That's not something I'd hang my apologist hat on.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:16 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Those belief systems don't need to be organized religion.
Oh. I agree. My point was simply that this kind of falls into the "be careful what you wish for" categories.
Looking around the world, I see no solid evidence that the replacement for Christian thinking would be an upgrade at the moment or anytime in the near future.
Hell, just here in the US, the "moral" teaching of the vocal non-religious is HIGHLY suspect at best.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:20 am to theronswanson
quote:
Atheists do not need Christianity to know that things like murder and rape are bad.
You don’t really know anything. Your morality is a vestigial tail of Judeo-Christian values.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:21 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Which is why "self-preservation" and "altruism" are mutually exclusive.
They don't need to be.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:21 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
That doesn't mean every DI is a god.
Obviously not, but the DI not withstanding, they're serving a greater purpose.
quote:
Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:21 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Which is why "self-preservation" and "altruism" are mutually exclusive.
Nope, there's strength in numbers.
There are lots of instances that giving up bits of self-preservation for altruism gives you larger returns in self-preservation.
Say sharing a meal with someone in your group. The next day you break your leg on a hunt. Now what? You cant hunt and will starve. But you've built up relationships with people in your group and they care for you until you've healed.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:22 am to Azkiger
Until it becomes more expensive for the group to care for you than to not.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:23 am to ShortyRob
quote:
My point was simply that this kind of falls into the "be careful what you wish for" categories.
Like I said, I'd like to see it happen organically. That's not wishing for the destruction of anything. I simply hope that time and wisdom eventually erode these religions into what they should be.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:24 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Yes. It’s always good to get rid of the form. The function will not suffer at all.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:24 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
Obviously not, but the DI not withstanding, they're serving a greater purpose.
Ok. Cool story?
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:25 am to the808bass
It's worked out for us so far.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:32 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Simple
You think there word fittest here is being used in a similar way to saying Burrow is the fittest between myself and he
But that's not actually the correct usage
In evolutionary terms, fittest merely means most likely to pass genes
For example. Sickle cell trait was actually a benefit in the face of malaria. And even though absent malaria, it's worse than not having the trait, when malaria it's around, the trait actually confers advantage
At certain points in history, being large was an advantage. At others, being small was.
"Fittest" doesn't mean what you think it means
So my view was a bit too simplistic? Thanks for taking the time to post a legit response.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:33 am to the808bass
quote:
Until it becomes more expensive for the group to care for you than to not.
Theres countless examples of this not being so.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:37 am to TrueTiger
quote:
and that vacuum will be filled, but with what?
Islam?
In every national experiment on the planet it has been replaced by communism. And communism drew its moral equivalency from Darwin. See a pattern here? And its beginning right here in the good ole US of A
Eliminate God, seize ultimate power . . . . because life is nothing more than a warm little pond. And people will submit to anything in just to survive (see Stockholm syndrome, Nazi Germany, Stalin)
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:41 am to Bard
quote:YW
So my view was a bit too simplistic? Thanks for taking the time to post a legit response.
It's a common misconception and honestly, I think that scientists would do well to never use the phrase "surivival of the fittest" since it has a certain connotation to laymen.
Heck, we can use current humans as a quick example.
There's no doubt that at certain points in human history, being the big strong dummy in the tribe was still an evolutionary advantage because, well, being able to kick as was VERY important.
Today, being the kinda goofy smarter dude who can pull in 6 figures has advantages that probably barely existed for the same person even 300 years ago.
An animal's environment drives a LOT of what "fittest" looks like. Another example is giraffes who we know didn't always have really long necks. The knee jerk is to simply say, "they got longer necks to leaves off the high trees" but, clearly they were eating something BEFORE the long necks showed up.
Hence, something happened environmentally that made that prior food less accessible of plentiful. Maybe a new animal showed up that ate a bunch of that low lying shite? Maybe the lower lying stuff just died out? I dunno. But, it wasn't just that long necks are awesome.
And, if one day, some environmental factor causes trees where giraffes are to stop growing so tall, over time, you'll see shorter and shorter necks.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:46 am to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
this is a weak argument against atheism (or "what atheists should believe") and physicalism in general. non-reductive physicalism and epiphenomenalism both recognize the reality of mind states and their physical or what you are calling "biological" basis.
I wouldn't disagree, I was just arguing against the idea that "conscience" is the thing that makes atheism work. It doesn't, because in that view it can't be real. There are better ways to break true atheism down.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:48 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Ok. Cool story?
Very cool.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 8:49 am to CoachChappy
quote:
One question I have always wanted to ask a real atheist is: What keeps you in line? Most crimes go unsolved. What keeps you from murdering someone who aggravates you?
You think being Christian keeps you from murdering everyone that upsets you? What the frick
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