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Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:09 am to Demshoes
quote:
a conscience, a moral compass
and how did that compass get there?
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:18 am to ShortyRob
He really wants to push his belief in "objective morality."
I actually used to think he was just being a salesman, as is often the case. I didn't think anyone would actually claim "I believe" could inherently result in objectivity.
I actually used to think he was just being a salesman, as is often the case. I didn't think anyone would actually claim "I believe" could inherently result in objectivity.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:18 am to TrueTiger
quote:
and how did that compass get there?
God did it.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:21 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
The point of the OP was that atheists have to truthfully admit that Christianity is a net positive for society.
That doesn't mean that Christianity is the only structure responsible for today's society, or that we couldn't have achieved a workable society without it. It's a vehicle that won out through the years.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:22 am to ShortyRob
quote:
While I acknowledge that on a societal level, moral framework has been and likely always will be a net positive, on an individual level, it doesn't follow that nothing prevents me from being a murderous a-hole.
I believe God's General Revelation is for all men, regardless of their Faith or disbelief, nationality or ethnic group....His blessings fall on everyone.
His General Revelation gives us morality. His Special Revelation gives us eternal life.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:24 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
It's a vehicle that won out through the years.
And leftists, like they always do,
seek out and destroy what is working.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:25 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
That doesn't mean that Christianity is the only structure responsible for today's society
Agreed.
quote:
or that we couldn't have achieved a workable society without it.
We're on the road to trying our best in accomplishing that it appears.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:31 am to Perfect Circle
quote:
I believe God's General Revelation is for all men, regardless of their Faith or disbelief, nationality or ethnic group....His blessings fall on everyone.
His General Revelation gives us morality. His Special Revelation gives us eternal
And that's fine. Obviously. I don't believe this. But at least you didn't spend 1000 words pretending you can logically PROVE your belief
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:33 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
We're on the road to trying our best in accomplishing that it appears
I think the point was that we could have achieved a moral frameworks similar to what was achieve with Christianity but with something else
Alas. Liberals aren't even trying to accomplish that. They are trying to eliminate moral framework entirely
Basically liberals actually seem to believe Foo"s general assertion that absent Christianity nobody can make any judgments at all. Which frankly makes them as dumb as him
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:36 am to TrueTiger
quote:
And leftists, like they always do,
seek out and destroy what is working.
Getting rid of Christianity isn't the problem. Religion left my life years ago and it's been an absolute positive for me.
They want something much more than that. It's about building their society.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:37 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
We're on the road to trying our best in accomplishing that it appears.
I think this is a good thing.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:43 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I think this is a good thing.
Not having a workable society? I don't. Anytime the moral fiber in anything is threatened then we suffer as a whole.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:51 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Religion left my life years ago and it's been an absolute positive for me.
have you considered that you are the exception?
and that the masses need religion and taking it away from them will negatively impact you?
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:53 am to BuckyCheese
quote:
I'm not religious at all but have always understood the teachings of the church were necessary for an ordered society.
I am not evangelical at all - but I have an enduring belief in God - and I am equally convinced that the concept of God (a supreme descriminate between right and wrong) is absolutely necessary for a functioning society. I do not believe any particular ritual of any particular Church Establishment is required, but the root of the religion is an absolute necessity.
As for atheists - as long as they are objecting to some 'brand' of religion I am ok with it. === but the moment they tilt toward nihilism, I am done with them.
My favorite saying from John Adams = "Our constitution has given you a government for a moral and religious people. It is totally inadequate for the governance of any other." (paraphrased for sure)
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:54 am to TrueTiger
quote:
have you considered that you are the exception?
and that the masses need religion and taking it away from them will negatively impact you?
And this is why I'm an atheist who has zero interest in convincing you to be one
I will happily debate you when you get my ideas wrong. But. If want to believe and it makes you happy, I'm good. Moreover. I'm not gonna shite my pants if most around me believe and choose to say a prayer out loud or put up a Nativity scene.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 6:56 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Religion left my life years ago and it's been an absolute positive for me.
I believe you - sadly
Posted on 11/8/19 at 7:01 am to ShortyRob
quote:
And this is why I'm an atheist who has zero interest in convincing you to be one
I will happily debate you when you get my ideas wrong. But. If want to believe and it makes you happy, I'm good. Moreover. I'm not gonna shite my pants if most around me believe and choose to say a prayer out loud or put up a Nativity scene.
exactly
and once you realize that having relatively happy believers all around you is a net positive for you (as opposed to unhappy non-believers)
then wouldn't you want their belief system to be of the more benign variety and not the 'convert or die' variety?
Posted on 11/8/19 at 7:16 am to Perfect Circle
Well, well...if it isn't the consequences of my own decisions.
Posted on 11/8/19 at 7:17 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Not having a workable society?
Nope. Having a society that works without religion. But you knew that.
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