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Started By
Message
re: Study: U.S. Tariffs on All Foreign Imports Would Create 10M American Jobs/ cut taxes 25%
Posted on 9/6/22 at 12:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/6/22 at 12:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:The problem is that you have an opportunity cost with your time. For the US we have a lot of potentially employable people, that do NOT have an opportunity cost. Menial labor is the best they can do. So instead of earning a menial salary, they get... nothing. Pile on a minimum wage and it's even worse.
Like another poster said, it's -EV to devolve yourself at the expense of the more valuable and efficient use of your time. I can do an hour of legal work for $200-300 or I can mow my lawn. Or I can pay a guy to mow my lawn for $50 and come out ahead by $150-250. Which is the more optimal solution?
That said... massive import tarrifs without repeal of the minimum wage, and other government gimmies is suicide.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 12:53 pm
1
Posted on 9/6/22 at 12:56 pm to David_DJS
quote:
If Republicans had a clue, they'd push the shite out of a Green Tariff. Call the Left's bluff. It should cover the cost of regulation in the US versus the source country. Otherwise, you're a) subsidizing foreign production and if you're a climate change enthusiast, you're b) paying a ton to pump a shite ton more CO2 into the air.
I had a similar idea years ago.
My idea was to create a worldwide standard for different levels of free trade between nations based on meeting certain food purity/worker protection/environmental protection standards (we could even include things like open and free elections). Nations would be graded A-D. An A nation would be one with relatively strong workplace safety regulations, environmental regulations, private property rights, patent laws, etc. A D nation would be one with ostensibly slave labor. Nations with the same grade would have 100% free and unfettered trade in goods between them. Nations at different levels would face tariffs on goods flowing from the lower graded nation to the higher graded nation. The better your conditions are, the more goods your nation can access without tariffs. Want to be independent? Totally fine.
In this way, nations would benefit from improving conditions for workers and the environment and nations who have already burdened themselves with such regulations wouldn't see their entire manufacturing bases disappear to nations who don't do those things. On the flip side, nations in similar situations would see an incentive to invest in one-another.
This post was edited on 9/6/22 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 9/6/22 at 1:01 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
U.S. free trade policies have resulted in decades of job cuts, stagnant wages, and a collapse of heartland American communities.
You said it. The goal of our economic policies over the past 40 years has been to enhance shareholder wealth, at the expense of American labor. It was a bipartisan, uniparty endeavor, cheerleaded by their stooges in academia and think tanks. It’s a very bizarre phenomenon that the great awakening to this has occurred on the right, but I’ll take it however I can get it.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 1:29 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
For the US we have a lot of potentially employable people, that do NOT have an opportunity cost. Menial labor is the best they can do.
quote:
massive import tarrifs without repeal of the minimum wage, and other government gimmies is suicide.
Ok you already included my response
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:17 pm to Jjdoc
Good heavens! This is a terrible idea that anyone with a passing understanding of economics would pan.
This would be monstrously inflationary, with goods becoming 15% more expensive overnight!
By all means, decouple from China for the vital supply chains, and consider small tariffs in areas, for which American manufacturing is close to competitive with China, but throw the rest of this in the dustbin with other failed economic models, like Marxism.
This would be monstrously inflationary, with goods becoming 15% more expensive overnight!
By all means, decouple from China for the vital supply chains, and consider small tariffs in areas, for which American manufacturing is close to competitive with China, but throw the rest of this in the dustbin with other failed economic models, like Marxism.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:20 pm to Sip_Tyga
quote:
The defeat for your dilemma is corporate tax cuts and deregulation remove protections for the larger corporations. One could say those things aren’t to make established ones more powerful but to keep such things from stifling competitors.
I think the argument can be made that it the opposite would take place and that it would make the currently powerful even more so. Wouldn't these huge tax cuts go to companies that already exist making opening a new company that much harder?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:23 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
Again... Follow recent history. As in the last Admin.
So you are setting aside decades and centuries of history and economics and instead indicating the few, very limited measures the last admin started... can be used worldwide across all industries with no negative effect?
Interesting.
quote:
When you then say to American Businesses:
1- We are going to eliminate or reduce your taxes.
When you say to the Americans:
1- We cut your taxes by 25%
Well... the report says... choose one or the other, NOT both.
quote:
In this Model Tariff scenario, the federal government could abolish corporate taxation outright or cut personal income taxes by 25%.
Meanwhile... the increased cost for most Americans would offset the 25% income tax cut (if that was the option chosen)
We're trying to tell you but you refuse to listen... the math just doesn't work.
To borrow a phrase from your leader Trump. "Great idea. Won't work".
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:29 pm to Eurocat
quote:
I think the argument can be made that it the opposite would take place and that it would make the currently powerful even more so. Wouldn't these huge tax cuts go to companies that already exist making opening a new company that much harder?
So... here is who is represented on the board of the lobbying group pushing this idea.
Atlas Tool Works
Nucor Steel
American Strategic Insurance Group
Revere Copper Products
Two Farmers Unions
etc
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:29 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Are you okay with fair trade deals? Or does it entail trade giveaways under the guise of "free trade". In other words are you okay with free trade both ways? And if the trading partner is not okay with free trade both ways are you okay with reciprocity on trade barriers?
Fair trade sure sounds like the way to go, but it is tough to define. Is it fair that one country allows child labor and one does not - can those countries ever have fair trade since they will never have equitable conditions?
Plus it should be noted that some economists say even if the trade is unfair - eff it - let it take place anyway because in the long term you will win with better products and stuff.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:32 pm to LSUFanHouston
Houston, not sure you understood what I was replying to. I was saying tax cuts would benefit big "already in place" companies.
SO WOULD the policies this lobbying group is pushing.
SO WOULD the policies this lobbying group is pushing.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:32 pm to LSUFanHouston
At what point does jjdoc realize that its the messenger and not the message that's getting push back?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:39 pm to Original Corn Pop
The message is way too broad to be taken seriously. I asked about food production on page 5. If we did something like this there is nothing stopping exporting countries (that we rely upon) from simply selling their products to other nations that have demand we cannot match and won’t have tariffs to deal with either. China, India and Southeast Asia would be the beneficiaries of something like this as its currently presented. We’d be eating less as a result and it wouldn’t be because we chose to live a healthier lifestyle it’s because we’d have supply shortages.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:45 pm to Eurocat
quote:
Houston, not sure you understood what I was replying to. I was saying tax cuts would benefit big "already in place" companies.
SO WOULD the policies this lobbying group is pushing.
Right... I was highlighting that small business isn't exactly going to benefit.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 2:46 pm to Original Corn Pop
quote:
At what point does jjdoc realize that its the messenger and not the message that's getting push back?
Oh, it's both.
The message is stupid and the messenger is an idiot.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:19 pm to Penrod
quote:
This would be monstrously inflationary, with goods becoming 15% more expensive overnight!
If only there wasn't the other side of the picture.
Which is 100% deflationary. But you will ignore that won't you.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:26 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
you are setting aside decades and centuries of history and economics and instead indicating the few, very limited measures the last admin started... can be used worldwide across all industries with no negative effect?
Not at all. I'm looking at decades of the jobs leaving and the building up of our very real enemy.
Are you saying the jobs leaving was not an actual thing?
quote:
choose one or the other, NOT both.
And?? Choose either one. Result is the same.
quote:
Meanwhile... the increased cost for most Americans would offset the 25% income tax cut (if that was the option chosen
Lol... nope. Thats your opinion. As I stated, recent history shows you are wrong.
quote:
We're trying to tell you but you refuse to listen... the math just doesn't work.
I understand full well what you are trying to say.
You are simply wrong. As pointed out, recent history and the fact that those nations that want to compete here will adjust to keep the market
We saw that in action....
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:30 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The message is stupid and the messenger is an idiot.
Why don't you give me a lesson in free trade. Our history with it. The results from it. The world history with it.
Educate me.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:44 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
I pay $50 a week for someone to cut my grass. I most certainly could cut my grass. There would be some slight cost involved (gas, cost of equipment spread over years, cost of weedeater string, etc).
It would take me 2 hours a week to do it. I would rather 1) spend that time doing something I enjoy or 2) spend that time working which earns me a lot more than $25/hr. Not to mention... my grass guy does a better job than I could.
I'm not a big tariff guy, but the old arguments are, well - old. The US economy and workforce/idleforce is very different from what it was 25 years ago.
To your analogy here introduce the notion that while you could earn better than $25/hr, you choose not to bother and that's because you spend every waking minute watching Netflix and getting high. In other words, you don't work for a living. Now given those circumstances, does it make sense for the poor bastards paying your way through life to pay someone else to mow your lawn for $50/week?
Also, there's a running theme in this thread that Chinese labor is dramatically less expensive than US labor. It's not. It used to be, but it's not anymore.
As I've posted before in this thread, today it's more about environmental regulations and permitting issues (safety) that is the big advantage one finds in China. In other words, we are subsidizing China and the reward we get for that is a country that does precisely the opposite of the manufacturing "behavior" we regulate for here in the US.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 5:52 pm to Jjdoc
How would this affect the Big Guy’s 10%?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 6:11 pm to Jjdoc
Its all good till your trading partners return the favor, although Reagan's tariffs help save Harley at the time ask them what they think about them now that they can no longer economically market American made bikes overseas.
Nothing happens in a vacuum homie.
Nothing happens in a vacuum homie.
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