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Started By
Message
re: Study: U.S. Tariffs on All Foreign Imports Would Create 10M American Jobs/ cut taxes 25%
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:53 am to Jjdoc
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:53 am to Jjdoc
quote:
U.S. free trade policies have resulted in decades of job cuts, stagnant wages, and a collapse of heartland American communities.
They've also made goods more affordable.
Tariffs (especially with the responding tariffs from other countries) will make our current inflation look like nothing. Prices will skyrocket.
2
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:57 am to GumboPot
quote:
because in America we have the resources to make almost anything.
But not at market costs.
We're really good at making complicated (and expensive) goods the world needs. Sure we can devolve our economy to put more resources into the lowest-level manufacturing, but how does that benefit us? We would (1) make our economy devolve and (2) still increase the cost of goods.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They've also made goods more affordable.
This would be a good debate.
No doubt, particularly a few decades ago, your statement is true. I'm not so sure it is anymore, though.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 10:58 am to GumboPot
quote:
Are you okay with fair trade deals?
Define this
quote:
Or does it entail trade giveaways under the guise of "free trade".
What does this even mean?
quote:
In other words are you okay with free trade both ways?
Define "free trade"
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:02 am to David_DJS
quote:
No doubt, particularly a few decades ago, your statement is true. I'm not so sure it is anymore, though.
Why?
We shift the lowest-level of production to the poorest areas on earth because they have the cheapest labor. This is beneficial to both sides because the rich country gets huge cost advantages and the poor country gets to start development and may eventually get a higher level of labor demand in their country. See: Taiwan for probably the best example of this.
Paying American workers 100x as much will cost more. If it didn't, then we would be making those goods here.
There is also specialization. Some countries, like the aforementioned Taiwan, have developed into experts at specialized manufacturing (like chips). Can the US do this? Yes, but it will cost a ton in investment and still likely lead to higher costs (via salary). That will raise prices.
Like another poster said, it's -EV to devolve yourself at the expense of the more valuable and efficient use of your time. I can do an hour of legal work for $200-300 or I can mow my lawn. Or I can pay a guy to mow my lawn for $50 and come out ahead by $150-250. Which is the more optimal solution?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:02 am to Jjdoc
OMG if IB a CHINAMAN sees this he will stroke out!
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
I have to also add that higher cost/prices doesn't just mean our consumers will pay more. Other countries won't buy our imports if they can find reasonable alternatives for cheaper costs. We'd basically be creating a domestic-only market where our citizens have to pay more for these goods than anyone else in the world.
This is all BEFORE those countries engage in tariffing our exports, which will hurt these goods even more.
It just makes no sense
This is all BEFORE those countries engage in tariffing our exports, which will hurt these goods even more.
It just makes no sense
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They've also made goods more affordable.
Tariffs (especially with the responding tariffs from other countries) will make our current inflation look like nothing. Prices will skyrocket.
That's BS!
Just as The last admin showed you. Love how you and the few always revert back to looking at half a picture.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:23 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Just as The last admin showed you.
...when?
quote:
Love how you and the few always revert back to looking at half a picture.
No I see the whole picture. I discuss it in detail in other posts.
Outside of certain sectors (like ones tied to national defense or vital/necessary goods that permit protectionism), it's not worth the higher prices.
We all learned that paying a little more for supply chain stability for certain microchips is probably +EV long term, after Covid.
But for non-specialized/vital goods? No.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:23 am to Jjdoc
I'm all for bringing back manufacturing and jobs to the US. But in typical Jjdoc fashion... some significant details are left out of the OP.
1) What happens when other countries raise their tariffs in response?
2) When do we talk about the increased cost costs to all Americans?
Tariffs "work" because by increasing the cost of importing, you are reducing - or eliminating - the cost difference between US based and importing. But that still - follow me here - raises costs.
"Buy American" almost always cost smore than "Import". That's why so many places import.
Increasing costs on everyday items when we are already in a high inflationary environment is... well... insane.
This plan would help 10M people get new jobs and be a net negative financially for the other 320M Americans.
3) LOLOLOLOL at thinking tariff revenue would be used to decrease other taxation.
Tariffs ARE not the answer.
The answer is lower corporate tax, less regulation, more incentive to hire American workers and produce items here.
The answer is to make the US more competitive, not other countries less competitive.
The answer is NEVER to increase taxes / costs.
1) What happens when other countries raise their tariffs in response?
2) When do we talk about the increased cost costs to all Americans?
Tariffs "work" because by increasing the cost of importing, you are reducing - or eliminating - the cost difference between US based and importing. But that still - follow me here - raises costs.
"Buy American" almost always cost smore than "Import". That's why so many places import.
Increasing costs on everyday items when we are already in a high inflationary environment is... well... insane.
This plan would help 10M people get new jobs and be a net negative financially for the other 320M Americans.
3) LOLOLOLOL at thinking tariff revenue would be used to decrease other taxation.
Tariffs ARE not the answer.
The answer is lower corporate tax, less regulation, more incentive to hire American workers and produce items here.
The answer is to make the US more competitive, not other countries less competitive.
The answer is NEVER to increase taxes / costs.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
But not at market costs.
BS! As the fine Lady from ASIA who opened up the boot company in Tn stated... "It no longer makes sense to ship raw materials from the US to Asia and the back to the USA for market"
quote:
Sure we can devolve our economy to put more resources into the lowest-level manufacturing,
It is not, NOR has it ever been an EITHER OR...
quote:
would (1) make our economy devolve
WRONG
It would expand it. It's not an either or.
quote:
(2) still increase the cost of goods.
Washing machines... LOL! Washing machines.
You 100% over look the whole picture. Always have, always will because you have been trained to think that ONE WAY!
You:
1- Tariffs will raise prices!!!
2- CUT TAXES SO COMPANIES WILL LOWER PRICES...
You are a walking contradiction.
WHOLE PICTURE:
1- Raise tariffs.
2- Lower taxes on People
3- Lower business taxes.
That equals more money in people's pockets and more jobs.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:28 am to GumboPot
quote:
When will people realize income taxes are the worst kind of tax slavery?
Property taxes are worst. By far.
"Sin" excise are second worse because they have absolutely nothing to do with raising revenue... they are simply a form of the government trying to control certain behaviors.
Fuel taxes are third worse because you are taxing a main component needed for most people to earn a living.
Payroll taxes would be ok if they actually tied to the benefits rec'd. But they are so far off.
Income taxes are worse than sales taxes. But that's about it.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:31 am to Clames
quote:
Ok moron, how would that help when China can, and has been, dump millions of tons of cheap steel onto the global market? Any ideas on what else could be done to combat that?
China dumps cheap steel because the government supports the steel industry... lowering the need for a profit motive.
The only way we fix this is to get used to higher prices.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:32 am to Jjdoc
quote:
BS! As the fine Lady from ASIA who opened up the boot company in Tn stated... "It no longer makes sense to ship raw materials from the US to Asia and the back to the USA for market"
Whoa...an anecdote from "a lady"
quote:
It is not, NOR has it ever been an EITHER OR...
Sure it is. We have a limited supply of available workers, materials, resources, time, etc.
quote:
You 100% over look the whole picture. Always have, always will because you have been trained to think that ONE WAY!
What "whole picture" am I missing?
You going to post some utter vagueness like "bad trade deals" or something without any substance?
quote:
1- Tariffs will raise prices!!!
2- CUT TAXES SO COMPANIES WILL LOWER PRICES...
You are a walking contradiction.
You're making a huge assumption here that companies would permit consumers to realize the difference in alleged tax savings, when they'd have almost no international competition for pricing.
This is like your assumption that other countries won't raise tariffs on our exports, which will hurt our economies on that end, too. Or that we will be able to import materials at pre-tariff pricing when countries will ensure those goods cost more, too.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:36 am to Clames
quote:
Ok moron, how would that help when China can, and has been, dump millions of tons of cheap steel onto the global market? Any ideas on what else could be done to combat that? Oh, and before you spout off that we could just expand domestic production, China has around 20 billion tons in iron ore reserves and they are so deep into Brazil's arse they can pretty much claim that 30 billion tons too. The US is not even close to having that much iron available unless we start importing it from allied nations like Canada and Australia.
So you think raising the cost of countries exporting materials to us will create a positive situation because now we have to rely on increased imports of those more highly priced raw materials, in order to produce the final product domestically? So we increase the costs of the final product by relying on more expensive raw materials and then increase the price again by manufacturing it domestically
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:37 am to llfshoals
quote:
"What is a salary, what is a wage, a wage is paying someone for something you simply cannot do
quote:
A wage is a value you put on that person’s time to do a job you’re willing to pay them for
The truth is in the middle.
A wage is something you pay for someone else to do... because you value your time and their expertise more than you value the money involved.
I pay $50 a week for someone to cut my grass. I most certainly could cut my grass. There would be some slight cost involved (gas, cost of equipment spread over years, cost of weedeater string, etc).
It would take me 2 hours a week to do it. I would rather 1) spend that time doing something I enjoy or 2) spend that time working which earns me a lot more than $25/hr. Not to mention... my grass guy does a better job than I could.
Getting back to trade... we trade not because we can't do everything ourselves - but because sometimes, others can do it better / cheaper than we can.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:37 am to David_DJS
quote:
No doubt, particularly a few decades ago, your statement is true.
Some what... Except for those who were forced into low paying jobs and found those "cheap products" were cheaply made and it was still hard to make ends meet.
quote:
This would be a good debate.
It was debated. He and a few made it about the washing machines.
Prices never increased more than normal... YET, companies moved here.. created jobs because that's how they avoided the tariffs.
Ask any man woman.. If you start making $10 more per hour because you got a better job, would you pay $1000 more for a washing machine... they will answer yes! Why
A washing machine will last 5 to 10 years. 1000 divided by 5 years is $200 for that year. OR $16.67 for per month. That person's pay went up $20K ... $400 per month.
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:39 am to Eurocat
quote:
, a wage is paying someone for something you simply cannot do -
So what do you call the money earned by people who cut lawns, clean houses, wash cars, etc
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:40 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Just as The last admin showed you.
Trump admin held a few press conferences indicating some jobs would come back.
Have those jobs actually come back? Or... did the companies wink and nod and then a few months later quietly cancel those plans?
Posted on 9/6/22 at 11:43 am to Jjdoc
quote:
It no longer makes sense to ship raw materials from the US to Asia and the back to the USA for market"
And why is that?
And what has the cost result been for those finished products?
We have some issues with "free trade". Tariffs are NOT the answer.
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