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re: Study Reveals Just 37% of American Pastors Hold a Biblical Worldview
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:50 pm to Night Vision
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:50 pm to Night Vision
"You have no need that any man teach you, for the anointing which ye have received shall teach you of all things". Pastors or church attendance may not be necessary, but a person's conscience and understanding should determine and confirm that. "One eateth herbs, another not...". If one thinks they should do something, then they had better do it. Personally, I would muddy the water of any Church that I were to attend, unless I just went to socialize and love the folk. It would be sinful for me to keep my mouth shut, as I see it. So...I bear witness outside of any formal 'church'. Though that may change. Don't matter to me.
Generally speaking, I note that while many Pastors and their Flock are 'Worldly Spiritual' people who teach and attend more to bear public witness to their Faith (which is a Scriptural require for Jesus' Mercy), I suspect that both find fruit in their action. As an affirmation of their commitment and a plus to their Faith/Belief.
Religious Ideas promote a Spiritual Paradigm and Scripture affirms that "the kingdom of heaven cometh not with observation (Empirical World), behold it is within". I.e., subjective.
As the whole Spirituality thing is based on Love, can any Pastor of Words/Book teach one to love? More than one could teach their self or experience daily IRL? Eastern Religious narratives employ the idea of 'Unity' or "Cosmic Consciousness", and Unity and Love are in effect the same thing. Though Western (Biblical) Love seems more personal, while some forms of (Eastern) Cosmic Unity would obviously be less personal. But I am no scholar.
Regardless, the refinement of one's character toward the feeling of Love/Unity - with the ultimate unity being the SUBJECTIVELY PERCEIVED existence of Self Awareness as THE basis for the infinite sum total of all Energy/Matter - is and should be the goal of all (positive) Religion. I personally see no error in those who seek to unify various Religious Ideology in all forms of Religion...IF said unification serves the purpose of a transformation toward developing a loving character. That is my MO.
Even so, the attainment of 'Heaven' and the transformation into a heavenly, loving Spiritual character will be by degree, as each will "reap according to that which they sew", "bountifully and sparingly"...and via "grace is measured". Heaven will not be equal or Communist Egalitarian; though all Souls will realize that they have an opportunity to rise to the highest heights of Love-based Perception. Jesus said that "you will do things greater than I have done"; that's saying a lot. There must be some big stuff happening after this life. I would expect nothing less.
Beliefs and Religions and Civilizations and Cultures, Believers and Non-Believers come and go. Irrelevant in the big picture. Love remains, as will Love's Opposite in some Universal Paradigms. And Mercy is an extension of Love. I think the pertinent issue is where each of us is personally, now, and where we wake up in our next life. Regardless of the 'herd'. Thank you Jesus.
Generally speaking, I note that while many Pastors and their Flock are 'Worldly Spiritual' people who teach and attend more to bear public witness to their Faith (which is a Scriptural require for Jesus' Mercy), I suspect that both find fruit in their action. As an affirmation of their commitment and a plus to their Faith/Belief.
Religious Ideas promote a Spiritual Paradigm and Scripture affirms that "the kingdom of heaven cometh not with observation (Empirical World), behold it is within". I.e., subjective.
As the whole Spirituality thing is based on Love, can any Pastor of Words/Book teach one to love? More than one could teach their self or experience daily IRL? Eastern Religious narratives employ the idea of 'Unity' or "Cosmic Consciousness", and Unity and Love are in effect the same thing. Though Western (Biblical) Love seems more personal, while some forms of (Eastern) Cosmic Unity would obviously be less personal. But I am no scholar.
Regardless, the refinement of one's character toward the feeling of Love/Unity - with the ultimate unity being the SUBJECTIVELY PERCEIVED existence of Self Awareness as THE basis for the infinite sum total of all Energy/Matter - is and should be the goal of all (positive) Religion. I personally see no error in those who seek to unify various Religious Ideology in all forms of Religion...IF said unification serves the purpose of a transformation toward developing a loving character. That is my MO.
Even so, the attainment of 'Heaven' and the transformation into a heavenly, loving Spiritual character will be by degree, as each will "reap according to that which they sew", "bountifully and sparingly"...and via "grace is measured". Heaven will not be equal or Communist Egalitarian; though all Souls will realize that they have an opportunity to rise to the highest heights of Love-based Perception. Jesus said that "you will do things greater than I have done"; that's saying a lot. There must be some big stuff happening after this life. I would expect nothing less.
Beliefs and Religions and Civilizations and Cultures, Believers and Non-Believers come and go. Irrelevant in the big picture. Love remains, as will Love's Opposite in some Universal Paradigms. And Mercy is an extension of Love. I think the pertinent issue is where each of us is personally, now, and where we wake up in our next life. Regardless of the 'herd'. Thank you Jesus.
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Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:57 pm to Night Vision
I am just very thankful and blessed that I attend a conservative bible based church. I know exactly what I am getting at services and these pastors dig into bible study and don't pull any punches but do it in a kind loving way. It is not a place that is out to make $ but a place to save and nourish souls.
I see and read about these other versions of "church" and either they seem wayyyyy to non biblical or prosperity based.
I would have to kick the can back and forth with traditional catholics but if they are traditional we are at least in the same domain.
LGBT is the clear dividing line. Once a church body goes that route...everything is up for grabs. Bodily resurrection didnt happen, Hell doesnt exist, Jesus isnt the only Way, pick your own gender, etc...
The resurrection event caused the New Testament....not the other way around. There was no incentive for that.
I see and read about these other versions of "church" and either they seem wayyyyy to non biblical or prosperity based.
I would have to kick the can back and forth with traditional catholics but if they are traditional we are at least in the same domain.
LGBT is the clear dividing line. Once a church body goes that route...everything is up for grabs. Bodily resurrection didnt happen, Hell doesnt exist, Jesus isnt the only Way, pick your own gender, etc...
The resurrection event caused the New Testament....not the other way around. There was no incentive for that.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 11:08 pm to the808bass
We have tons of people not going to church, and even more not finding Jesus, and you want to complain about people going to church and listening to the gospel (even if it is a select portion of it) just because it isn't your church?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 11:14 pm to Herooftheday
Fellowship. Going to church is not just about hearing one man tell you his interpretation of the Bible. It is about going to church, to be with others. Hearing what the church is doing to improve the world and spread God's word. PARTICIPATE, and pray over others. Have your prayers guided to those who need prayer and request prayer for your own difficult times. Church is much more than a book reading.
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 5/18/22 at 11:46 pm to 10thyrsr
I understand what church is. I'm suggesting that maybe people aren't finding those churches you're describing anymore.
I won't sit in a pew while the man at the pulpit is willing to marry homosexuals or suggests that everyone under the sun is perfect in God's eyes and should be accepted for who they are and that their lifestyle is a-ok to a nodding congregation.
I have maintained a church family of people that I reach out to from churches of my past that I feel are equally yoked in faith. But I don't base my walk in brick and mortar.
I won't sit in a pew while the man at the pulpit is willing to marry homosexuals or suggests that everyone under the sun is perfect in God's eyes and should be accepted for who they are and that their lifestyle is a-ok to a nodding congregation.
I have maintained a church family of people that I reach out to from churches of my past that I feel are equally yoked in faith. But I don't base my walk in brick and mortar.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 11:54 pm to Night Vision
Sorry, but I’m gonna need more than this article to sign on that these pastors are worthy of indictment.
It lists categories, but says nothing of the “score” that’s required to be considered having a Christian worldview.
Take creation: I have heard peole far more learned and spiritual than me give inconsistent interpretations of Genesis.
Was a “day” really a “day”, for example.
I’m not saying the study is worthless or that there is not a problem, but this simplistic summary leaves a LOT of white space.
It lists categories, but says nothing of the “score” that’s required to be considered having a Christian worldview.
Take creation: I have heard peole far more learned and spiritual than me give inconsistent interpretations of Genesis.
Was a “day” really a “day”, for example.
I’m not saying the study is worthless or that there is not a problem, but this simplistic summary leaves a LOT of white space.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 4:54 am to SirWinston
quote:Might ought to go with something like "Teacher" as most people believe that "Pastors" are ordained in one denomination or another.
Plenty of pastors and churches to criticize without bringing the GOAT into it.
Doesn't he teach universal salvation?
Oh, and his "prosperity" gospel. Net worth $50mm+
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 5:19 am
Posted on 5/19/22 at 5:33 am to Night Vision
It's difficult to make much of this survey without seeing the 8 categories they used (I assume questions in the survey). You can make "Biblical Worldview" pretty much anything you want it to be, hence the importance of the categories covered. If this is some "New Age" religion and the questions were leaning that way, I would hope "Christian" pastors should go with a hard NO. So to me, the 37% figure is pretty meaningless.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 5:45 am to Herooftheday
quote:I bet if you wanted to, you could find a Church that meets and preaches to your beliefs; not 100% but most. Many of these non-denominational churches teach what their congregants want to hear. My Church (United Methodist) is likely to split into three factions - Traditional (my Church), Moderates and Progressives. Again, if you really want to, you could find a church with which you comfortable.
I understand what church is. I'm suggesting that maybe people aren't finding those churches you're describing anymore.
I won't sit in a pew while the man at the pulpit is willing to marry homosexuals or suggests that everyone under the sun is perfect in God's eyes and should be accepted for who they are and that their lifestyle is a-ok to a nodding congregation.
I have maintained a church family of people that I reach out to from churches of my past that I feel are equally yoked in faith. But I don't base my walk in brick and mortar.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 5:47 am to Night Vision
I've attended several churches that throughout the sermon a Bible was never opened but only quoted.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 5:56 am to crazyatthecamp
quote:
LGBT is the clear dividing line. Once a church body goes that route...everything is up for grabs. Bodily resurrection didnt happen, Hell doesnt exist, Jesus isnt the only Way, pick your own gender, etc...
I would disagree. Moral relativism is the dividing line. Where does the modern world get their idea of "personal truths"? Some would say the enlightenment and the crackpot thinkers who tried to coopt the language of natural law while saying that it didn't apply anymore (and instead was just a useless Roman tradtion by guys like St Thomas Aquinas).
I would go back further. The first part of Christendom to reject truth were Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and all of the many other wannabe revolutionaries (side note: it was not a reformation...history plainly shows an early church that is thoroughly Catholic, and not something anywhere close to what the SBC would consider doctrinal).
When man says the he alone is the sole judge of what is right, wrong, and the revealed truth based upon his sole interpretation of Scripture we have a situation built for moral relativism.
The only way for protestants to ever prevent themselves from falling into moral relativism would be for Luther and his contemporaries to have entered into a hunger games-styled battle royale where the winner's version of the NT, OT (and books/translations) is the new "truth".
Protestantism fails as an intellectual and spiritual system because it turns the Church into the new creation of a symbolic "church". This new "church" possesses none of the divine mandate or divine gaurantee.
What to do then? Revert to the worship and observance of Truth that Peter, Paul, St Polycarp, St Cyril and so many others shared.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 6:00 am to Herooftheday
quote:
I won't sit in a pew while the man at the pulpit is willing to marry homosexuals or suggests that everyone under the sun is perfect in God's eyes and should be accepted for who they are and that their lifestyle is a-ok to a nodding congregation.
Yet, just 100 years ago, no mainline protestant denomination would have contemplated universal blessings of divorce/remarriage, birth control, abortion, or gay adoption. What is keeping all of protestantism from more or less following the Episcopalians/Anglicans into approving LGBTQ lifestyles (always the Episcopalians...see divorce and contraception)?
Posted on 5/19/22 at 6:45 am to Foch
It is interesting to read these Catholic perspectives.
I get that point of view.
I know my church will never go liberal though....but many other protestant ones have.
I get that point of view.
I know my church will never go liberal though....but many other protestant ones have.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 6:55 am to cssamerican
quote:
Church doesn’t necessarily have to be a building you go to on Sunday, it can just as easily be a few people discussing the Bible. Church is meant to be a time in which you study, discuss, and worship God with other believers.
Definitely agree, but unfortunately I’d be willing to bet that of the people who quit going to church for this reason or other reason, less than 37% actually meet or study the Bible on their own…
There are people in China, North Korea and other hostile countries who would do anything to get access to a whole body of believers who can freely study the word and worship together, but we are so spoiled that we will just stop making an effort to find a church and make it better because we don’t like the music or the new preacher’s style.
ETA: this is also because we make ourselves the center of church. “What did you get out of that service, etc.” That is not the point of church.
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 6:59 am
Posted on 5/19/22 at 7:05 am to FlexDawg
quote:
If a pastor is too afraid to preach about taboo subjects such as the rapture, the tribulation, and doesn’t ever preach in a manner that helps someone become convicted of their sin, then I want nothing to do with that church.
This, here, is part of the problem - but opposite of why you think.
I teach about those but would never preach those in a worship service because those are tertiary doctrines that, frankly, are very recent and self-centered with questionable biblical support. Who are we to believe God wouldn’t allow US to suffer and rapture US out after allowing His servants to suffer for His sake for thousands of years? That doctrine is about as “western” and “American” as it can get
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 7:09 am
Posted on 5/19/22 at 7:39 am to Night Vision
Very sad and frightening to read this. Is what the Bible speaks of as the 'Great Falling away'
What is at the heart of the Bible and its teachings?
Man is a sinner & is in need of a Saviour.
A lot of it can be summed up in what is referred to the Roman Road to salvation:
“As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;” (Romans 3:10)
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Romans 3:23)
“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
The second half of Romans 6:23 is enough for us to jump up shout hallelujah.
“If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10)
What is at the heart of the Bible and its teachings?
Man is a sinner & is in need of a Saviour.
A lot of it can be summed up in what is referred to the Roman Road to salvation:
“As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;” (Romans 3:10)
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Romans 3:23)
“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
The second half of Romans 6:23 is enough for us to jump up shout hallelujah.
“If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” (Romans 10:9-10)
Posted on 5/19/22 at 9:06 am to Night Vision
Catholic Answers
This is a great website for anybody, regardless of what you believe, to get all of your questions about the Catholic Faith answered. You'll find that all of the Catholic beliefs and practices are addressed and explained.
Take for example: the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths with regard to The Holy Eucharist. You'll find that their Faith on this question is rooted in The Holy Bible and supported by historical records. You'll find that the documentary support dates back to the very Early Church.
This is just one example of one issue that is explained.
This is a great website for anybody, regardless of what you believe, to get all of your questions about the Catholic Faith answered. You'll find that all of the Catholic beliefs and practices are addressed and explained.
Take for example: the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths with regard to The Holy Eucharist. You'll find that their Faith on this question is rooted in The Holy Bible and supported by historical records. You'll find that the documentary support dates back to the very Early Church.
This is just one example of one issue that is explained.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 12:29 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
I teach about those but would never preach those in a worship service because those are tertiary doctrines that, frankly, are very recent and self-centered with questionable biblical support. Who are we to believe God wouldn’t allow US to suffer and rapture US out after allowing His servants to suffer for His sake for thousands of years? That doctrine is about as “western” and “American” as it can get
Very recent? Then why did the early church fathers believe in a pre trib rapture? Why did they see any other belief as a form of heresy? Darby wasn’t the first one to mention a pre-trib rapture. The church knew the truth before the corrupt Catholic Church came along with their censorship and book burnings. Irenaeus for example, learned from Polycarp who was a direct witness to John the apostle. Is Irenaeus less knowledgeable than you on the subject of the rapture when he knew exactly what John believed?
Why do the parallels of the rapture in the Bible align with the church being removed prior to God’s wrath?
There has NEVER been a time in all of history that God poured out HIS wrath on the earth and his people were left to suffer his wrath. The only time in history that God poured out his wrath on the entire earth was the flood and what happened to Noah and his family, the only righteous left on earth? What happened to lot and his family when fire and brimstone rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah? That was an isolated instance as you know and didn’t affect the entire earth, but the same principle applies. What happened to Gods people when the plagues were brought upon Egypt? The church will not be left behind to endure the wrath of God, which will be the worst time in all of human history. The bride of Christ will not be left to be battered by the anti-christ and all of Gods seal, trumpet and bowl judgements before her marriage to the lamb.
Some claim that a rapture isn’t mentioned in the Bible when it very clearly is.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the Greek word for that? harpazo (pronounced har-pad'-zo)
to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
So where do we get rapture from? The Latin word for caught up is rapturo from which we get the word rapture.
I’m sorry to say that you’re not one of those 37%. I hope that you will study with an open mind and become more brave and bold and teach the 100% gospel truth and not leave out important things that Christ would have his children know. Titus 2:13 says we are to be looking for that blessed hope in anticipation, NOT choosing to ignore it rather than teach your audience to also be looking for that blessed hope.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Revelation 22:10
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Daniel is unsealed in Revelation and we today should be spreading what has been revealed to us and that includes Daniels 70 weeks prophecy and all things end times related in the book many pastors are afraid to preach from, the book of Revelation.
The truth is in the words and we are not to seal up these words, we are to make them known. Way back in chapter 1 verse 11, John was told to write in a book what you see and send it to the churches. Spread it, spread this word, Jesus is coming and with Him comes blessing for His own and with Him comes horrifying judgment on the ungodly. To fail to preach revelation, to fail to proclaim revelation is not only foolish, because back in chapter 1 verse 3 it says, “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and heed the things written in it for the time is near.” Not only will you forfeit that blessing, it is not just foolish but it is sinful.
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This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 5/19/22 at 1:06 pm to Night Vision
quote:
In fact, data suggests that Syncretism, defined as the “blending of ideas and applications from a variety of holistic worldviews into a unique but inconsistent combination that represents their personal preferences,” is the predominant worldview among pastors, with 62% subscribing to this hybrid philosophy.
Sounds like a long winded way of saying "anti-white."
Posted on 5/19/22 at 1:58 pm to FlexDawg
quote:
The church knew the truth before the corrupt Catholic Church came along with their censorship and book burnings. Irenaeus for example, learned from Polycarp who was a direct witness to John the apostle.
The same Irenaeus who said that scripture, traditions handed down by the apostles, and apostolic succession were 3 key sources of Orthodoxy, and who went on to say that the surest source of Christian teachings was the Church of Rome?
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 2:00 pm
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