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re: Strip away whataboutism, election fraud, and specific GOPE policies, what does MAGA offer?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:15 am to Jjdoc
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:15 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Just because we do not like globalism/Free Trade with nations who abuse it does not mean that we do not like market solutions.
Market solutions mean no government interference in the markets.
So you don't want governmetn interfering in markets? Yes or no.
quote:
But free trade wrecked whole areas of our nations taking that wealth
a. Their wealth wasn't taken. Their low-level economic opportunity was taken. I doubt you can understand the difference but it's a big one.
b. They should have adapted to society changing. Or do you not believe in bootstraps, either?
2
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:19 am to TigerSprings
quote:
Currently we cannot produce ABS rubber in the US unless our government gives companies just enough money to keep a plant operational in case we go to war with Russia.
IMO security is the only valid reason for protectionism and tariffs. The second someone starts bleating about the "working class" what they're really talking about is they want to pick and choose which industries get protection based on their personal desires. I usually just ask those types what kind of tea they buy.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:21 am to Flats
quote:
IMO security is the only valid reason for protectionism and tariffs.
And that is fine, and I'm not arguing...but that's specifically not market-based. It's security-based. National security, by default, requires public spending.
quote:
The second someone starts bleating about the "working class" what they're really talking about is they want to pick and choose which industries get protection based on their personal desires.
Yes, exactly.
My favorite is how we pretend the very same people didn't argue the opposite in the past, when they rejected the EXACT same arguments from Occupy/BLM types for years...but if you apply their response to Occupy/BLM to white guys from the Midwest today, you're now a monster
Wednesday had a fricking MELTDOWN about this a few weeks ago.
This post was edited on 8/18/23 at 11:23 am
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
Best thing he did was rescind all the Obama era executive orders. Only problem is, when President Depends got elected, he tossed out all the EOs by Trump and brought back most of the Obama EOs.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Market solutions mean no government interference in the markets.
No, that is what you want. Since our first day as a nation, Gov has been involved.
Gov has a role. Like it or not. It's the type of gov that we have to choose.
In your mind, nothing can go wrong if the GOV is out because the market will dictate. That's BS. Had the Gov not stepped in, we would not have competition in ANY sector. It would all come from single sources.
quote:
So you don't want governmetn interfering in markets? Yes or no.
Gov has always played a role.
quote:
a. Their wealth wasn't taken. Their low-level economic opportunity was taken. I doubt you can understand the difference but it's a big one.
Wrong. Their wealth was taken. And nothing replaced it.
quote:
b. They should have adapted to society changing. Or do you not believe in bootstraps, either?
Keep telling yourself that.
It's why the GOPE is a lost cause. Politicians and Corps mixed together to enrich themselves at the expense of the middle class and at the expensive of our republic is NO LONGER a winning topic.
The businesses trying to implement ESG and more is nothing more than the CCP influence on them... and the American people will pay the price. But to you... THEY SHOULD JUST ADAPT!
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:31 am to Flats
quote:
IMO security is the only valid reason for protectionism and tariffs.
Very valid.
quote:
The second someone starts bleating about the "working class" what they're really talking about is they want to pick and choose which industries get protection based on their personal desires. I usually just ask those types what kind of tea they buy.
NOPE! it's called level playing field. If you are manipulating your currency (China is doing that right now), placing tariffs... stealing IP...
F them and use our purchains power against them.
WE WILL find other outlets to get products from.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:34 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Since our first day as a nation, Gov has been involved.
Gov has a role. Like it or not. It's the type of gov that we have to choose.
Cool. You're changing the argument. I don't care about whatever historical data point you're referencing.
I'm talking about market solutions and free markets.
quote:
In your mind, nothing can go wrong if the GOV is out because the market will dictate. That's BS.
Aye, comrade!
quote:
Gov has always played a role.
That didn't answer the question.
quote:
Their wealth was taken.
From where? Savings account or money market account?
quote:
It's why the GOPE is a lost cause. Politicians and Corps mixed together to enrich themselves at the expense of the middle class and at the expensive of our republic
Replace "middle class" with "working class" and "republic" with "Democracy" and tell me what you sound like:
Politicians and Corps mixed together to enrich themselves at the expense of the working class and at the expensive of our democracy.
Whoooooo does that sound like?
This post was edited on 8/18/23 at 11:35 am
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:.
Market solutions mean no government interference in the markets.
I used to agree with this but based on what we’ve seen I would argue free trade can only exist between two free markets not just one. Chinas manipulation of the market on their end, suppression of workers and diversion of capital to the State has allowed them to exploit old free trade concepts.
Sure we get cheaper everything but at what cost?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:38 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
n I would argue free trade can only exist between two free markets not just one. Chinas manipulation of the market on their end, suppression of workers and diversion of capital to the State has allowed them to exploit old free trade concepts.
You can justify your socialism however you want it.
I am proudly anti-Socialist.
quote:
Sure we get cheaper everything but at what cost?
Nothing, really.
We get to advance our economy while China double-invests in low-level economic market share. And they pay money so that our consumers get lower prices.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
I suppose all depends on whether one believes politics framed by Constitution rest upon wonky policy debates or upon the will of the people…
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:49 am to SlowFlowPro
Are trade embargos towards hostile countries socialism?
In your world the Union would’ve been buying southern cotton and rice during the Civil War helping build the military they were fighting.
And the cost is we’ve allowed a less than friendly nation to capture entire industries, build their military and pump influence throughout the world with our own money.
Not a good plan.
In your world the Union would’ve been buying southern cotton and rice during the Civil War helping build the military they were fighting.
And the cost is we’ve allowed a less than friendly nation to capture entire industries, build their military and pump influence throughout the world with our own money.
Not a good plan.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:53 am to Jjdoc
quote:
NOPE! it's called level playing field
You would need a world minimum wage first.
American manufacturers utilizing domestic labor and materials are at a competitive disadvantage to every other nations mfgrs.
Why do you want to put Americans at a disadvantage?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Cool. You're changing the argument. I don't care about whatever historical data point you're referencing.
No, I'm not changing anything. I'm pointing out facts that have to do with market solutions.
quote:
Aye, comrade!
Address the rest of it. Like it or not... Without the gov anti trusts, we would all have the same brand of phone and pay whatever price they put on it.
That's NOT free market. That is what you are advocating.
Right now, we would be totally controlled online due to the few that own it. We witnessed what they can do in 2020!
quote:
From where? Savings account or money market account?
Yes because they had to use it due to job loss.
quote:
Replace "middle class" with "working class" and "republic" with "Democracy" and tell me what you sound like:
Middle class and working class are interchangeable words as working class is a section of the middle class. Republic and Democracy are not.
quote:
Politicians and Corps mixed together to enrich themselves at the expense of the working class and at the expensive of our democracy.
Whoooooo does that sound like?
No idea. I stated republic.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:56 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
I used to agree with this but based on what we’ve seen I would argue free trade can only exist between two free markets not just one. Chinas manipulation of the market on their end, suppression of workers and diversion of capital to the State has allowed them to exploit old free trade concepts.
Sure we get cheaper everything but at what cost?
1000% truth
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:56 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
Are trade embargos towards hostile countries socialism?
Socialist? Probably not. Leftist? Yes. Clearly a market interference. I don't believe in them. Obama's biggest foreign policy victory was starting to normalize relations with Cuba, and Trump stupidly reversed that policy.
quote:
And the cost is we’ve allowed a less than friendly nation to capture entire industries, build their military and pump influence throughout the world with our own money.
This is how economics work. China is not the opponent you think they are, either. They're a paper tiger on the verge of economic and demographic collapse.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:56 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Sure we get cheaper everything but at what cost?
1000% truth
How do you compete globally?
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They're a paper tiger on the verge of economic and demographic collapse.
I’ve heard this for years and it hasn’t happened yet. It’s just a talking point for people who don’t want to face down the China threat.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 11:58 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You would need a world minimum wage first.
No you don't. Again, narrow minded thinking. You can trade with like minded nations or you can react to their manipulation with proper actions.
The issue here is that due to politicians being bought and paid for, they did not act.
Posted on 8/18/23 at 12:00 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
No, I'm not changing anything.
Yes you are. You're bringing in historical arguments when discussing policy arguments. Totally different (and irrelevant) conversation.
quote:
I'm pointing out facts that have to do with market solutions.
No. You're trying to use government intervention in the past to pretend that it's now "market solutions". It was never a market solution.
quote:
That's NOT free market. That is what you are advocating.
It is, and you're using Leftist talking points to attack it. LITERAL communist bullshite.
Why do you support Communism?
quote:
Right now, we would be totally controlled online due to the few that own it. We witnessed what they can do in 2020!
NET NEUTRALITY!
This was quite the popular position on the right
quote:
Middle class and working class are interchangeable words as working class is a section of the middle class.
You finally got something right
quote:
Republic and Democracy are not.
They have LOTS of overlap. We are both a republic and a democracy, for example.
quote:
No idea. I stated republic.
Irrelevant, but you probably have to look up that word
Posted on 8/18/23 at 12:01 pm to thebigmuffaletta
quote:
I’ve heard this for years and it hasn’t happened yet.
Ask JJ about the threads he posted earlier today. He can explain it to you.
quote:
It’s just a talking point for people who don’t want to face down the China threat.
There is no real threat. It's a boogeyman argument simpletons and sheep started repeating.
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