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re: Some thoughts on IQ
Posted on 7/30/25 at 10:10 am to 4cubbies
Posted on 7/30/25 at 10:10 am to 4cubbies
quote:
These aren't studies It's educational policy. I actually need to correct myself though. No Child Left Behind tied federal funds to state test achievement. The Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) passed in 2015 replaced that funding model.
Yes, policy wise, categorical grants don't work as well for general welfare as block grants. A certain amount of resources has to be spent on lower achievement to have a functioning society.
FWIW, I do think you are moving things to an unnecessary binary position. There are plenty of people who are both against the strict Bush-era educational policy and also supportive of using measures to optimize attainment.
This started with IQ, and IQ still has metrological value; however, it also tends to be a dog whistle for Eugenics. It's possible to simultaneous believe that school choice will lead to a better overall system, we should incentivize educational attainment, and we should fund programs to ensure all society has a foundational level of education available to them. Its possible to both understand how you need to account for individual situations along with population driven decision making.
This post was edited on 7/30/25 at 10:50 am
1
Posted on 7/30/25 at 10:34 am to 4cubbies
quote:anyone spending my taxdollars. If I'm paying you, I expect you to perform.
Who else do you want to hold accountable
Are genetics and family important contributors? Of course. Are they more important contributors in Louisiana, for example, than they were 5 or 10 years ago?
What changes were made to achieve recently improved educational results in LA? Did Louisiana's SES numbers suddenly jump through the roof? Did family structure, poor cultural habits, single parent HHs suddenly shift for the better?
This post was edited on 7/30/25 at 10:37 am
Posted on 7/30/25 at 11:01 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You're going to need to cite that bit, Zach. I'd be surprised if the facts lay out quite like you remember.
I'm not going to sift through all 800 pages of my book to find that. You don't have to believe it. I have to admit, though, I was shocked with the numbers. I was also shocked that researchers would start a study that was so long term that they knew they would be dead when it was concluded thus having to hand off to younger researchers when they retired.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 11:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
When you see some random country in Africa with an average 70 IQ, the absurdity on its face is pretty clear to anyone who understands what a 70 IQ actually is (and, again, that's the average).
Have you ever talked to someone from Africa with a 70 IQ? I have. Their thinking is extremely concrete. They don’t problem solve well beyond basic situations or what they learned watching others. It actually explains a lot why those countries have no real industry and are reliant on foreign aid for most things. It’s also why the dictators in those countries always studied at European or US universities. Being able to think fluidly is like a superpower when everyone else has an IQ below 80.
This post was edited on 7/30/25 at 11:51 am
Posted on 7/30/25 at 12:02 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Bull Excrement. How hard they work at something is the biggest indicator of success. None of those poor children came out of the womb being great at sports (they couldn't even walk), yet somehow most managed to be really good when they got older. How is that possible? Could it be that they took the time not spent studying and used it for getting better at athletics? I think so. Had they used the time on studying, they would have improved in that area instead of sports.
SES is the biggest indicator for academic success or failure
Posted on 7/30/25 at 12:02 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
We already know that SES is the biggest indicator for academic success or failure.
Yeah, but is that causation or correlation?
Given what I've seen I'm going with correlation. I've known poor people who placed an emphasis on self reliance, education and hard work, and strangely enough they tend to be successful. Their income didn't define their potential, their values did.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 12:12 pm to Flats
I think the lower SES overlaps with a lot of the behaviors that can cause negative impact on IQ, especially as a young child. Things like reading to the child, talking to the child, diet, etc. The same culture that leads to this lower outcome is the same culture that leads to the pathologies in the community at large.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 12:21 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I was BLESSED with a 138 IQ
quote:
A 0.6%'er
Yep, trust me if you find yourself in this group...it can have some unintended repercussions. You get a lot of haters(see my downvotes) and literally have to dumb down the discourse to avoid the angst of others. It makes it hard to relate in ways honestly. I am also left handed and that's another thing which causes issues at times, mostly on a logistics front but you still have to be able to project ahead to avoid certain pitfalls.
One glaring example I am having right now...I work at a call center and I am always at or near the top with productivity related to what we are calling about. I also catch shite almost daily from my Supervisor about the word tracks I use...I tell her when I dip below my lofty position here, THEN say something, otherwise my "high brow" verbiage isn't hurting a damned thing.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 12:46 pm to Crimson1st
quote:
I work at a call center
Something isn’t adding up to 138.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:15 pm to dukkbill
quote:
I can't speak for the person you replied to, but what's wrong with giving teachers their aliquot share of both responsibility and praise.
Generally speaking, teachers rarely get praised from what I've seen. On this message board, I would be shocked if you could find even one positive post about teachers in the last 10 years.
quote:
e are devoting extra resources to that student that is assing-off that could be spent on the motivated student in the other population se
There is an expectation flaw. Not every student is capable of scoring Advanced on the standardized test. We certainly proceed as if every student is a genuis just waiting for a teacher to notice, though.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:16 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
It happens to associate in lowerclass households.
lower class and lower SES are synonymous.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:22 pm to dukkbill
quote:
FWIW, I do think you are moving things to an unnecessary binary position. There are plenty of people who are both against the strict Bush-era educational policy and also supportive of using measures to optimize attainment.
Benchmarks are important. Measuring growth is important. So much emphasis placed one one annual test is ridiculous.
quote:
ts possible to both understand how you need to account for individual situations along with population driven decision making.
Agreed. Students used to learn practical skills in public schools that translated to daily life. Now, public schools all focus on preparing students to attend college, even though we know that the ROI for college these days is criminal, unless going into a highly specialized professional field like medicine or accounting. All the emphasis that was placed on STEM my whole life set a generation of people up for failure as our government continues to sell citizens out for campaign contributions. Computer science majors can't find jobs. Learning to code doesn't cut it anymore.
IMO, there needs to be a shift to incorporate more practical skills back into public education.
This post was edited on 7/30/25 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:30 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Yet the door was left wide open with a question to you on this page "What changes were made to achieve recently improved educational results in LA?"
Generally speaking, teachers rarely get praised from what I've seen. On this message board, I would be shocked if you could find even one positive post about teachers in the last 10 years.
So why don't you take a second pass at an answer:
What changes were made to achieve recently improved educational results in LA?
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:34 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
All the emphasis that was placed on STEM my whole life set a generation of people up for failure as our government continues to sell citizens out for campaign contributions. Computer science majors can't find jobs. Learning to code doesn't cut it anymore.
I think that's more AI driven than policy. I don't pretend to know the impact, but I don't think we're done seeing certain white collar sectors take a haircut.
quote:
IMO, there needs to be a shift to incorporate more practical skills back into public education.
100% agree, with more emphasis on technical education after HS.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:37 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
What changes were made to achieve recently improved educational results in LA?
I can't answer that question. I'm only familiar with the New Orleans education system which is made up of a fractured system of charter schools with very little oversight.
My assumption is that the woo woo vibes-based reading curriculum of Lucy Calkins was abandoned in favor of the Science of Reading played a big part in those gains.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:40 pm to Flats
quote:\
I think that's more AI driven than policy.
AI isn't as advanced as people seem to think. The main policies that drove the oversaturation of programmers have to do with HB1 visas.
Per a basic Google search: While there isn't a specific count of H-1B holders solely in computer science, it's estimated that tech workers make up the majority of H-1B recipients, accounting for 65% of jobs nationwide, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. In 2023, around 191,000 H-1B visas were granted to Indian professionals, and that number rose to about 207,000 in FY 2024. Overall, there are thought to be around 730,000 H-1B holders in the US
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:44 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Yes.
lower class and lower SES are synonymous.
But SES and "lower SES" are not synonymous.
We were discussing SES.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:47 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
We were discussing SES.
Come on. When I wrote:
quote:
We already know that SES is the biggest indicator for academic success or failure.
I know you are not claiming to have believed I meant lower SES is correlated with high academic achievement.
You've been grumpy lately.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:47 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
AI isn't as advanced as people seem to think. The main policies that drove the oversaturation of programmers have to do with HB1 visas.
From what I understand it's pretty damned good at coding. You still need high level people for architecture but code monkeys are going to take a hit if they haven't already. I don't doubt H1 takes a chunk, but I'd have to see overall numbers to know the impact.
And FWIW, I'm just relaying info from a good friend who's an SME in this area. It's not a topic I know much about. He thinks anybody who only deals with a keyboard and ones and zeros should be concerned.
Posted on 7/30/25 at 1:50 pm to Flats
quote:
From what I understand it's pretty damned good at coding
It could be. That definitely falls outside of my wheelhouse.
My experience with AI leaves a lot to be desired. I use it mostly for low-stakes tasks like creating chore charts for my kids and meal planning. When I've used it for academic purposes in the past, it has given me incorrect information.
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