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xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35363 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

What about the states like CA that enact sanctuary laws and twart the Fed from being able to find and deport said illegals?
Is that states doing that or cities doing that? Either way, what about them? That’s their way of playing this political game, and it isn’t the state’s job to do the feds’ job for them.

ETA: This issue is weird because it often gets “conservatives” siding with the federal government.
This post was edited on 7/11 at 11:18 pm


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Muleriderhog
Arkansas Fan
Member since Jan 2015
1047 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

Whatever course taught you this nonsense, I suggest that you retake it at a better school

The constitution clearly states that all CITIZENS have the right to vote. Representation in Congress and electoral college votes fit hand in hand with right to vote. So no, constitutionally illegal aliens do not have the right to congressional representation.
Dumbass.


Muleriderhog
Arkansas Fan
Member since Jan 2015
1047 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:


(Quick google....first result is from penn state law..) 

Yes, immigrants are protected by the U.S. Constitution. The brief answer is “Yes.” When it comes to key constitutional provisions like due process and equal treatment under the law, the U.S. Constitution applies to all persons – which includes both documented and undocumented immigrants – and not just U.S. citizens.

Yes for other things, not the right to vote which fits hand in hand with congressional representation. Illegal aliens DO NOT have a constitutional right to congressional representation.


Bass Tiger
Missouri Fan
Member since Oct 2014
12098 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
No! This type of madness is why America is at risk of becoming a quasi 3rd world shite hole.


AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
11815 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

quote:

Whatever course taught you this nonsense, I suggest that you retake it at a better school
The constitution clearly states that all CITIZENS have the right to vote. Representation in Congress and electoral college votes fit hand in hand with right to vote. So no, constitutionally illegal aliens do not have the right to congressional representation.

Dumbass.
Both Article One and the Fourteenth Amendment say that we count “persons” (NOT “ citizens”) and that we apportion Congressional representation on the basis of that count.

AGAIN, I think it SHOULD be otherwise and that Apportionment should be based upon the number of CITIZENS. My ideological preferences do not alter the words of the written document by one iota.


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24
Mickey Goldmill
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2010
8907 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Then why has the census been counting everyone, even non-citizens, since the 1800s?


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35
xiv
LSU Fan
#FreeVOR
Member since Feb 2004
35363 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

No! This type of madness is why America is at risk of becoming a quasi 3rd world shite hole.
Man, dang ol’ queers.


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04
buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31763 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

The US constitution strictly applies to US citizens you fricking idiot.
This has not only been determined wrong by the courts, long ago, it doesn't make any sense:

1. There weren't any specific immigration or citizenship laws at the time of constitution, even though natural born citizens (jus soli) were presumed citizens when it refers to things like eligibility for president. So there wasn't really anything in place to actually verify that.

Therefore, do you think the Founding Fathers really put in all of these protections in place only for citizens, without anyway to easily prove citizenship and make it easy for the government to abuse those protections since most wouldn't be able to prove it? Even today, we don't have to walk around carrying an ID like we're some dictatorship to be protected.

2. The constitution only references citizens in select places (e.g., eligibility for president). Do you think the founding father's omitted that term elsewhere, and in many instances, used persons on accident?

3. Do you think the founding father's thought that certain protections like no cruel and unusual punishments, right to a speedy trial, etc. were not intended for anyone? So they were ok with the government throwing any non-citizen in jail and letting them rot without a trial?

4. Since you explicitly said citizens, then that would mean that people who aren't citizens but here admitted legally by the government (e.g., work visas, student visa, permanent residents, tourists, etc.) would not be protected by those rights. How does that make any sense?

5. Most of the rights provided by the constitution are negative rights (right to not be subjected to an action; limits on government). Do you think the founding father's really wanted to limit governments intrusions, yet not only give it the power to not only intrude on some people, give it the ability to make laws to limit those who it can intrude upon by minimizing those who are and who can become citizens?


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23
buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31763 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

No! This type of madness is why America is at risk of becoming a quasi 3rd world shite hole.
Yet, they've been counting them since before we were a superpower, as we became a superpower, and since we've become a superpower. But now we're suddenly at risk of becoming a third world country for doing the same thing we've always done?


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25
narddogg81
Alabama Fan
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
13293 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
No


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buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31763 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

Yes for other things, not the right to vote which fits hand in hand with congressional representation
Yet, the constitution refers to ALL FREE PERSONS to be counted, without any specification of whether they can vote or not. And it explicitly addressed two populations that couldn't vote at the time (slaves and Native Americans who weren't taxed). And slaves were given still given 3/5ths representation (the compromise), despite not even being a free person.

And besides, those who can't vote would include citizens (e.g., under 18, felons, severe intellectual disabilities, etc.), and would have even included women for most of our history as well.


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13
Carl Kolchak
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Jan 2019
249 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
No.


GeorgeWest
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2013
6401 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
The Constitution says that all persons living here should be counted as part of the population. And those census figures are to be used to apportion legislative bodies. Non-citizens cannot vote but they are Constitutionally part of the population.


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14
buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31763 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

What about the states like CA that enact sanctuary laws and twart the Fed from being able to find and deport said illegals?
I think it could make it even worse if they suddenly changed it so that these populations weren't counted.

At least now, everyone is counted the same. But imagine if the Ds get in power and have a chance to pass some immigration reform and pathway to citizenship. Don't you think they would do everything in their power to incentivize immigrants to come to their states and leave the R states then make it easier for immigrants to get citizenship in their states but harder in R (say be enrolled in college).

These figures are completely made up and probably extreme, but I want to show an unintended consequence by Ds some more political power by tying the appropriations to citizenship if they get the chance:

1. Say D states have a 4 million person advantage over (12 million to 8 million; 60%) if they counted illegal immigrants in the census for appropriations.

2.Then D states create incentives give them a larger advantage, say a 12 million person advantage (16 to 4; 75%) and get them in programs that will prepare them for citizenship in preparation for a pathway.

3. Then they pass a pathway to citizenship law that ensures 90% of the immigrants in D states (14.4 million) can easily attain citizenship compared to only 40% in R states (1.6 million). So now they not only have an even larger advantage than before (12.8 million compared to 4 million) they have a larger percentage as well (90% compared to 60%).


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Buckeye Jeaux
Member since May 2018
5549 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Every illegal counted in a census cancels one citizen's congressional representation.
This post was edited on 7/12 at 12:10 am


Pelican fan99
New York Yankees Fan
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Jun 2013
15209 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Absolutely not


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bhtigerfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
19418 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Hell fricking no.


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00
buckeye_vol
Ohio State Fan
Member since Jul 2014
31763 posts
 Online 

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
quote:

Every illegal counted in a census cancels one citizen's congressional representation
This doesn't make sense mathematically for numerous reasons (e.g., small percentage of illegals, every state has illegals, takes a lot of people to impact appropriations, large variance in population for appropriations between states, etc.).

Regardless, since the Constitution, as written, specifies ALL FREE PERSONS, even though the USA was a place that attracted immigrants, even before it was an independent nation, and would undoubtedly continue to do so.

So based on the Constitution, which a presume you value, no FREE PERSON can cancel out any other FREE PERSON'S congressional representation.


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11
Pussykat
LSU Fan
South Louisiana
Member since Oct 2016
2278 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Absolutely not,


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00
Armchair_QB
Member since Aug 2013
1300 posts

re: Should Illegal Aliens count towards congressional representation?
Not only no, but any elected official who supports counting them should be executed for treason.


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