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re: Sentenced to Life for an Accident Miles Away

Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:29 am to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95636 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:29 am to
quote:

Also wouldn’t have occurred if the police didn’t start a high speed pursuit to catch someone who stole spare change from 5 unlocked cars.



I just wouldn't do this. I'm wanting to concede you have some valid points, but then you do this shite. You are giving the accurate perception that you would just prefer this all be deemed a "victimless crime", no enforcement, no consequences should follow.

That's a losing argument with most folks.

If you focus on:

1. Actions of Baxter
2. Reasonably expected consequences of Baxter's (alone) conduct

...in my opinion, you would go further with this board.

At any point you are perceived to be defending Baxter's underlying crime OR blaming police, you're going to (rightfully, again, IMHO) lose folks.
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 7:30 am
Posted by LCA131
Home of the Fake Sig lines
Member since Feb 2008
77241 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:30 am to
quote:

his commission of a simple burglary


Really though, wasn't it 5 attempted burglaries? That sounds habitual...
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
48390 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:33 am to
quote:

I understand his commission of a simple burglary is why he is in prison for life for murder. You call that Justice. I do not.


I have zero sympathy for thieves.

Also, the article you linked is from the New Yorker, and they capitalize the word black but not white. That tells me all I need to know before the article even starts.
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
38353 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:34 am to
quote:

...in my opinion, you would go further with this board.
Nah - she's just a nut job.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138876 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:36 am to
quote:

wasn't it 5 attempted burglaries? That sounds habitual...
5 cars, one occasion.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61378 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:38 am to
quote:

I just wouldn't do this. I'm wanting to concede you have some valid points, but then you do this shite. You are giving the accurate perception that you would just prefer this all be deemed a "victimless crime", no enforcement, no consequences should follow.


The men should have been arrested. One innocent bystander is killed every day due to high speed police chases. I believe those should be a last resort to pursue violent criminals, not necessarily petty thieves.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61378 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:39 am to
quote:

That tells me all I need to know before the article even starts.


So why did you post in this thread?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476637 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:40 am to
quote:

Really though, wasn't it 5 attempted burglaries? That sounds habitual...


Were these solely burglaries because a car was involved?

That's the first issue. That should not be "burglary" or a felony. THAT is where the over-criminalization of our Polie State begins. They expand basic misdemeanors into felonies for all the externalities that a felony creates.

These externalities grow into incredibly scary conspiracy -based major felonies.

If we just go back to the beginning and start this off with five petty thefts, I imagine it will change the entire perspective for every subsequent action
Posted by LCA131
Home of the Fake Sig lines
Member since Feb 2008
77241 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:40 am to
quote:

5 cars, one occasion.


So if I kill 5 people in one occasion there is only one murder charge?
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
13462 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:41 am to
quote:

In 1982, when Ian Marcus was nine days old, his father left work and headed home to his family on Long Island on a new moped, only to be killed by a driver who’d run a red light. “Here I was, this twenty-five-year-old widow with a baby,” Ian’s mother, Donna, told me. About a year and a half after the accident, when a bearded guy who ran a Brooklyn meat locker asked her out, “it took ten friends to convince me to go.” Her date, Dean Amelkin, arrived with a plastic train set for Ian. Before long, her son had a second dad, a second last name, and two younger sisters.

The family relocated to South Florida, where Dean helped his own father run a graphics shop. Eager for Ian and his sisters to achieve more economic stability than he’d known, Dean pushed them academically, weeping with pride when Ian won a national debating championship in high school. Eventually, Ian went on to law school, landing a job at an élite Manhattan law firm; as a kid, he had watched “My Cousin Vinny” with his dad, and they’d agreed that lawyering looked fun.

One Sunday morning in August, 2012, Ian, now thirty, was in bed in Brooklyn when his mother called, distraught. Every Sunday for more than a decade, Dean had met some buddies at a shopping center, biked thirty miles to a beach and back, and then lingered over breakfast. But on that morning Dean hadn’t made it home. For the second time in his life, Ian had lost his father to a reckless driver.

This shock was swiftly followed by another. As a result of the crash, which all parties agreed was unintentional, two men stood accused of murdering his father and a friend who was cycling with him. One of those charged, twenty-five-year-old Sadik Baxter, had never laid eyes on the victims. At the moment of impact, he had been miles away, in handcuffs.

When Donna heard the charges, she asked, How is this even possible? Ian had learned the answer in law school: a sweeping and uniquely American legal doctrine, often couched in terms of justice for victims’ families, called felony murder. To engage in certain unlawful activities, the theory goes, is to assume full responsibility if a death occurs—regardless of intent.

The precipitating offenses in this case: Sadik Baxter had searched five cars for stray cash before surrendering when cops appeared, and O’Brian Oakley, his twenty-six-year-old friend, had fled the scene, lost control of his car in a police chase, and killed the bicyclists. The prosecution charged both men with two counts of felony murder in the first degree.

Recently, Ian spoke with me about the case while caring for his newborn daughter in Brooklyn; as we talked, he sometimes ran his hand down a thick beard he’d grown in homage to his dad. “It’s truly one of the cruellest ideas in the American legal system,” he said of felony murder. “And most people don’t even know it exists.”


1. Who didn't know about felony murder? I would have thought everybody on the planet would have watched at least a few episodes of Law & Order, in which every 4th case or so is a felony murder case.

2. There's nothing wrong with it at all. If someone dies as a result of you committing a crime, there's nothing "cruel" about holding you responsible for their death. If there's any "over criminalization," it's charging murder instead of manslaughter, but depending upon the circumstances of the crime I think either could be appropriate.
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 7:45 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95636 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:42 am to
quote:

The men should have been arrested.


Should the runner (Oakley) have faced life for the deaths of the cyclist?
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 7:43 am
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
48390 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

So why did you post in this thread?


Because I can. Every time you post one of these, I read through these hoping you will see the light and come to your senses eventually. Unfortunately, you never do.

If he hadn't stolen from other people, he wouldn't be in this situation. That's the bottom line. You're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking to drum up sympathy for a thief on a board full of people who go to work every day and pay taxes.
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61378 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

So if I kill 5 people in one occasion there is only one murder charge?


LCA, two people were killed. The deaths were a result of a high speed chase/evading police. Baxter wasn’t a part of either of those events.
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:43 am to
quote:

So why did you post in this thread?


Why do you post here at all?

Tiger Droppings Politics is a Center/Right message board overwhelming populated by WHITE men whom you've admitted you hate.

Why do you post here?

It certainly isn't because you are interested in intellectual discourse because even a glance at your posting History complete dispels that notion.

Go back to Reddit or DU echo-chamber where your insane, hateful, myopic world-view is the norm.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
82339 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:46 am to
quote:

They expand basic misdemeanors into felonies for all the externalities that a felony creates.




You just described what the Manhattan D.A. is doing to Trump.
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
38353 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:46 am to
quote:

not necessarily petty thieves.
They knew that how at the time of pursuit?
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95636 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:47 am to
quote:

The deaths were a result of a high speed chase/evading police.


Should the runner (Oakley) have faced life for the deaths of the cyclists?
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 7:47 am
Posted by 4cubbies
Member since Sep 2008
61378 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:47 am to
quote:

Every time you post one of these, I read through these hoping you will see the light and come to your senses eventually. Unfortunately, you never do.


well, I must admit, a dozen strange men calling me names on the internet does pose a very thoughtful and compelling argument debunking my claims…
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476637 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:48 am to
quote:

You just described what the Manhattan D.A. is doing to Trump.



I mean go see my first post ITT and the theme of my posts about all of the Trump prosecutions.

The Police State is the Police state.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173651 posts
Posted on 12/13/23 at 7:48 am to
quote:

Nope. Not under the felony murder law. I mean this is kinda right out of the law.

So the law can't be poorly thought out? Someone that had nothing to do with a murder gets charged with murder and you think it's fine because it fits within the confines of the law?
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