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re: Sentence Reached
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:32 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If you want to show where the Bible doesn't allow for lawful killing
I never made that claim.
What I have done is disagree with your claim that a murderer MUST be put to death because of Genesis 9:6.
quote:
God set the standard for human justice in Genesis 9:6.
But again, that's not what it says. Here it is again:
quote:
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
God is sovereign, and that passage is clear that He is the one demanding the accounting, even if other humans are the instrument by which the judgement comes.
Saying, "Gee, Moses would have been killed according to God's unbreakable decree, but they just couldn't find him, and David would have been killed, but gosh, there was no civil authority to do it" ignores that sovereignty.
God could have made it so that Moses was found and that David was killed in battle.
And in fact, the OT has plenty of similar stories where God dispensed judgement through arranging or influencing human's actions. The OT is full of such stories as well as the writings of the prophets in which God promised to use other humans to bring judgement on Israel (and He did it).
1
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:36 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:I'm speaking of the context of the whole Bible. Christians are to treat the whole Bible as God's Word.
I'm not sure it does.
Here's the whole section:
quote:No, it's talking about the value of innocent human life, again, as determined by the context of the rest of the Bible.
Animals aren't capable of committing murder, but they can kill humans, and God is including animals equally (in fact, he lists them first) in His demand for accountability for shedding blood in this part of the covenant. In the context of this passage, the logical conclusion is that it is NOT talking about murder, only killing (or really, only shedding the blood of) human beings.
The law of Moses as explained in the rest of the Torah makes differentiation between the murderer and the man-slayer (accidental homicide). There is differentiation between the one who kills on purpose and he who kills on accident, as well as killing for capital punishment and killing within the context of just war.
God also commands animals to die in the mosaic law for shedding the blood of man, but because they are morally culpable, but as a sign of the value of the innocent life of man that animals should be destroyed for destroying the life of an image-bearer of God.
"Shedding blood" for wrongful killing categories:
Numbers 35:33; Deuteronomy 19:10; Proverbs 6:17
Example of capital punishment being commanded:
Numbers 35:16–21, 30–31
Example of just war commanded:
Deuteronomy 20:13, 16–17
Example of self-defense being permitted:
Exodus 22:2
The distinction between a murderer and a man-slayer:
Numbers 35:9–28; Deuteronomy 19:1–13
The killing of an animal for killing a man or woman:
Exodus 21:28–32
quote:It's not eisegesis to interpret Genesis 9:6 in light of the rest of the Bible. If the statement referred to all taking of human life--including in self-defense, just war, and capital punishment--then God would have contradicted Himself in commanding the taking of life elsewhere. You are the one ignoring basic biblical interpretative methodology by looking at this verse in isolation.
You have resorted to eisegesis here IMO.
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:40 pm to oldskule
quote:
That punk needs a knife in his heart.....just like the young man he murdered!
He's going to end up with 20+ years of unwanted hoyners in his butt.
It's certainly not enough, but there's definitely some justice sprinkled in there.
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:43 pm to PaulDrake
quote:
and better yet, he gets in more trouble while in prison and gets more time added on. Karma!
Well, he has displayed his inability to control his emotions and spirals into a murderous rage so there is a good chance he’ll re-offend behind bars.
Thankfully we won’t have to hear about this arsehole nor his stupid degenerate family again.
@ Sally, it was a solid thread until well you know…
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
having to drink 4 gallons of unicorn piss. Would THAT be justice?
No (two key strokes)
Now, is SFP gonna answer the question, "was this justice?" You're a "Pro." Shouldn't be that difficult for a professionally trained sic 'em lawyer to answer a simple question.
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:53 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Your disagreement hasn't been supported by Scripture, though. I'm explained that Gen. 9:6 provides a principle of justice (life for life) because man is made in the image of God, and has inherent value.
I never made that claim.
What I have done is disagree with your claim that a murderer MUST be put to death because of Genesis 9:6.
It's the logical conclusion from the rest of Scriptures that Genesis 9:6 is speaking of human value that results in justice for murder being the death penalty. If it doesn't speak to that, it either makes the verse nonsensical or contradictory. The only consistent interpretation is to see it as I explained.
quote:Yes, God will hold all men to account for their actions. What you said here is important: "even if other humans are the instrument by which the judgement comes". I'm explaining that from the larger context of the Bible, Genesis 9:6 sets the standard for justice for murder as capital punishment, to be carried out by other humans.
God is sovereign, and that passage is clear that He is the one demanding the accounting, even if other humans are the instrument by which the judgement comes.
quote:It doesn't. God is sovereign to both punish and reward, and He is sovereign to delay punishment and reward, for His own purposes. David was punished immediately for his adultery and murder through the death of his son, but he was also cursed to have bloodshed perpetually in his own house as a punishment for his murder. God punished him even though he didn't kill him on the spot. The reason for it was for the greater good of the seed of David (Jesus) eventually being born and taking away the sin of the world. Likewise for Moses, whom God used to bring out Israel from bondage, deliver the law, and lead the people to the land of Canaan.
Saying, "Gee, Moses would have been killed according to God's unbreakable decree, but they just couldn't find him, and David would have been killed, but gosh, there was no civil authority to do it" ignores that sovereignty.
God could have made it so that Moses was found and that David was killed in battle.
God was still sovereign in His decree for those men, and He did not use the typical human sentence of death for them.
But we are also talking about the difference between how God perfectly works with sinners and what He expects from humans dealing imperfectly with other humans. He commanded the death penalty to be the normative just punishment for murder, and He grounded it in Genesis 9:6, where it was explained that a life for a life was grounded on men bearing the image of God.
quote:Yes, and this is my point. God is free to do as He wills, but He has provided principles for man to live by when God isn't directly intervening through prophets and revelation.
And in fact, the OT has plenty of similar stories where God dispensed judgement through arranging or influencing human's actions. The OT is full of such stories as well as the writings of the prophets in which God promised to use other humans to bring judgement on Israel (and He did it).
God commands men to act justly, and the consistent application of justice for man is life for life when murder is involved.
Posted on 6/9/26 at 11:56 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Pharoah was seeking Moses' life for murdering the Egyptian. That's the natural consequence of murder, and the expected (civil) punishment for it.quote:So only people who have encountered God are bound by Genesis 9:6?
Moses had not encountered God.
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