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Message
re: Senate stealing from the poor - this should be a crime.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 10:38 am to Narax
Posted on 12/20/24 at 10:38 am to Narax
quote:
Read again.
Government pensions are paid for by the taxpayers.
Are you just going to double down on stupid?
quote:
The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
The 'taxpayers' pay into the general fund. Your social security goes to the trust fund under your SOCIAL SECURITY #, and has never been intermingled with the general fund
NEVER
1
Posted on 12/20/24 at 10:42 am to davidsheroes
quote:
This is an absolute crime. Rich people telling the elderly that cannot receive what is rightfully theirs- the social security system that they paid into all of their lives.
Well… They (and you) didn’t PAY INTO jack shite. You paid FOR elderly and disabled people to get social security with the hope and desire that the ponzi scheme would still be around once you are infirm and in need.
Your money has never sat in some pool waiting for you to pull it out. That money got spent the second it was deposited for the needs of today.
The sooner people come to the realization that it has always been a Ponzi scheme and a lie, the sooner we can crash the system and the sooner you can keep your money rather than paying into a scam.
It is a sunk cost. You will never see it. Time to stop paying into the lie.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:01 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
This^^^ is because they have government/taxpayer provided pensions so they get a reduced SS benefit. Think about how many Americans have no pension......a lot.
Remember the American Rescue Plan that the Dims and Recucklicans passed during COVID19 Hysteria? There was approximately $35 billion from that stimulus money that went to the Teamsters Midwest Pesion Fund to bail out that mismanaged pension fund and a lot of the money came from millions of taxpayers who don't even have a pension.
These pensions were not given to the employees for free. I personally pay 9.5% of my earnings into mine and it's mandatory. Some more, some less. The employer pays too but the employee's wages don't reflect the market either. So, you work for less but have a pension. So, let's not confuse the issue by thinking that those receiving a pension have no skin in the game. The issue of Social Security should not be an issue, but it is. Millions of people paid into both Social Security and to their own pension plan. Why should they have their Social Security benefit reduced because of the pension? You already get less because you can only claim the years you paid into Social Security. The years you paid into your government pension don't count which already reduces the benefit. Further reducing it is stealing. That happens to no other group except those with a government pension. It you have a pension with Exxon, Dow, Walmart, name a company, then no offset. All we are asking is that we receive our full benefit based on what we paid in, nothing more.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:13 am to RobbBobb
quote:
The 'taxpayers' pay into the general fund. Your social security goes to the trust fund under your SOCIAL SECURITY #, and has never been intermingled with the general fund
You are just a greedy liar trying to change the topic.
You never paid enough into your government pension to pay for the benefits you are going to get, that is called a shortage.
That shortage is paid for by younger workers until there is no more money and then it gets bailed out by tax payers.
You signed up for the government pension system knowing that it was the way it worked, you saw that as a good deal.
Now suddenly you see a chance to get more money by ripping off other social security payers and you are turned into a greedy troll.
Sheer greed, you should be embarrassed. Your entire paycheck was paid by taxpayers.
Social Security was never your money.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:39 am to Narax
quote:
You never paid enough into your government pension to pay for the benefits you are going to get, that is called a shortage.
You are still clueless. I will pay in for almost 50 years. 50 years!! Interest is also included in that amount, because they took what was mine, and forbid me from investing it on my own
You paying for an older persons retirement is a joke. You havent even paid into the system enough to fund a couple years of their retirement at this point
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:47 am to Techdog89
quote:
All we are asking is that we receive our full benefit based on what we paid in, nothing more.
Exactly
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:02 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
will pay in for almost 50 years. 50 years!! Interest is also included in that amount, because they took what was mine, and forbid me from investing it on my own
Again. You ARE NOT paying INTO anything.
You are paying FOR the elderly and disabled TODAY to receive benefits with the HOPE there are enough young people to pay for the cost of YOUR care once YOU become infirm.
There is no little account with your social security number attached where your money goes into for you to pull out later on.
It is 100% and always has been, a Ponzi scheme.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:19 pm to davidsheroes
What is the monthly minimum social security payment?
If a teacher gets a part time summer job and makes next to nothing, are they entitled to a minimum social security payment that far exceeds whatever they put into it?
That goes for any other government employee who works in a private sector but doesn’t contribute substantially to the social care trust fund.
If a teacher gets a part time summer job and makes next to nothing, are they entitled to a minimum social security payment that far exceeds whatever they put into it?
That goes for any other government employee who works in a private sector but doesn’t contribute substantially to the social care trust fund.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:21 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
In La. state employees have their own retirement acct. You didnt pay one red penny into that system, unless you worked for the state.
When you work for the government, isn't your employer the taxpayer?
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:27 pm to davidsheroes
quote:This should go to SCOTUS. SS contributions are immediately converted to US Debt Obligations. Ignoring those obligations would seem to be Unconstitutional
Senate stealing from the poor - this should be a crime.
Those who paid into social security should not be penalized by getting a job as teacher, policeman, fireman, etc.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 12:50 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
You havent even paid into the system enough to fund a couple years of their retirement at this point
So give use your numbers, because you are obviously lying.
How much have you paid in per year to SS and to your govt Pension.
And how much will you get back from each one?
No examples, tell us what you paid in and what you get back.
Don't do some "its my money I would have invested in NVIDIA BS"
Posted on 12/20/24 at 1:05 pm to davidsheroes
quote:
Senators Cruz, Rand Paul, Grassley, Lee of Utah
You could be right about all that but 3 of those are the best 4 elected people in Washington.
Realistically the issue is forcing people to pay into an insolvent system. Whether they get screwed over by a state retirement system or not, compulsory pension/SS/retirement systems created this issue.
If all of the sudden you were given the option to NOT pay into SS, it would die in a matter of months. I’d honestly stop paying into it today and expect no payment later on and say “no harm, no foul. Enjoy my money while it lasts, olds.”
If the only reason your program can survive is because you force people to pay for it, it’s probably not that great of a system.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 1:16 pm to Narax
quote:
So give use your numbers, because you are obviously lying. How much have you paid in per year to SS and to your govt Pension. And how much will you get back from each one? No examples, tell us what you paid in and what you get back.
I paid 10% of my pay for 16 years and will get 2.5 % x 16 years when I turn 50. About $2,000 a month.
I’ve worked since I was 16 paying into social security including all 16 years as a firefighter. For the past 11 years in the private sector. My salary has been substantial. Paying whatever the hell it’s been. For 2024 I’ve paid $10,366.44 so far.
Why the frick shouldn’t I get the same amount back from SS as the next guy?? Because I worked two jobs most of my life. Go frick all y’all.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 1:21 pm to David_DJS
Example: taxes go to a Louisians police department's operations. Employee costs are usually 65% or more of the taxpayer funded budget. Part of the employee costs is the pension plan. The employee pays their portion and the department pays the employer portion which is usually double the employees portion. Pension managers invest the monies received. As officers retire they draw a pension. In addition to their contributions and the funds investments new officers coming on continue to finance the system. This is similar to social security. So yes taxpayers fund part the pensions but in return for that funding receive a benefit of police services. The bigger question for the tacoayer is whether they recieve adequate services for their taxes. Now the officer retires and puts in the required amount iof time and required contributions n their next civilian job to recieve social security. Why shouldn't, like the pension calculations, he or she receive the the same ss pension calculations of a similar civilian worker?
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:02 pm to mikie421
Thank you!
So is your pension only for 16 years? Does it end when you turn 66? Or are you saying at 66 you will get in pension+ social security exactly what someone else would get from just SS?
Now to note, you choose to make more money by working 2 jobs, which you admit was a lot.
You chose knowing that your Fire Fighter Pension was not a huge benefit.
When you started this, you knew the USG was not going to pay you out of the collection, you chose to accept that.
quote:
I paid 10% of my pay for 16 years and will get 2.5 % x 16 years when I turn 50. About $2,000 a month.
So is your pension only for 16 years? Does it end when you turn 66? Or are you saying at 66 you will get in pension+ social security exactly what someone else would get from just SS?
Now to note, you choose to make more money by working 2 jobs, which you admit was a lot.
You chose knowing that your Fire Fighter Pension was not a huge benefit.
When you started this, you knew the USG was not going to pay you out of the collection, you chose to accept that.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:10 pm to mikie421
quote:
Why the frick shouldn’t I get the same amount back from SS as the next guy?? Because I worked two jobs most of my life. Go frick all y’all.
You'll never get the same amount back as the next or any other guy. I encourage you to do additional research on how social security is assessed and paid out per individual.
There's 3 quarterly income thresholds from lowers to highest:
1. Amount that qualifies for the SS contribution.
2. Amount that vests a quarter into social security
3. Amount that qualifies as substantial earnings for the windfall elimination provision.
Just because you worked since 16 doesn't mean you've had qualifying quarters since that time. Also, the average income used in the pay out formula is based on a 30-year or 120-quarter average. Any income earned that is below the 2. threshold counts as a zero in the average. If you paid in as a firefighter and in the private sector, that's at least 26 years into that 30 year average. And your WEP reduction is much less because you had 26 years of earnings. Instead of a 0.40 on the first term in the formula, yours is a 0.70.
You're not getting screwed and you likely won't see a huge difference in your benefits because of this bill.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:20 pm to davidsheroes
The WEP isn't there solely to penalize people with a pension. It just so happens that some people with pensions get penalized.
Part of the blame goes to the state and local governments. The Social Security Act allowed them to opt out of social security so long as the provided an adequate pension that would then be funded by employees in lieu of SS contributions. Even if a opt out pension recipient then works the minimum j40 quarters to get SS, it will already be reduced because of the 30 year average. Every year less than 30 is a zero averaged in. Always been this way, and that's why pensions from private companies like Exxon and Dow as someone mentioned aren't subject to this. They paid into the pension and paid into SS.
The WEP is there because they saw that people who made less, paid in less, and/or paid in for fewer years were getting a higher percentage return than people who paid in more for longer. People with opt out pensions fall into this category if they work in the private sector for less than 20 years, and a little less so every year up to 30.
Continue to melt, but at least understand what is going on.
Part of the blame goes to the state and local governments. The Social Security Act allowed them to opt out of social security so long as the provided an adequate pension that would then be funded by employees in lieu of SS contributions. Even if a opt out pension recipient then works the minimum j40 quarters to get SS, it will already be reduced because of the 30 year average. Every year less than 30 is a zero averaged in. Always been this way, and that's why pensions from private companies like Exxon and Dow as someone mentioned aren't subject to this. They paid into the pension and paid into SS.
The WEP is there because they saw that people who made less, paid in less, and/or paid in for fewer years were getting a higher percentage return than people who paid in more for longer. People with opt out pensions fall into this category if they work in the private sector for less than 20 years, and a little less so every year up to 30.
Continue to melt, but at least understand what is going on.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:24 pm to Narax
quote:
When you started this, you knew the USG was not going to pay you out of the collection, you chose to accept that.
No I did not. What 20 year old is digging in to the details about WEP and pension offsets. Get real.
All I’m saying is that I should get out of SS what I pay in just as just like any other person. My FF pension is paid in part by the people of the city, not the federal government. If I can’t get the same benefit as everyone else why should I have to pay into SS at all?
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:28 pm to Narax
quote:
So is your pension only for 16 years? Does it end when you turn 66? Or are you saying at 66 you will get in pension+ social security exactly what someone else would get from just SS?
I will get the pension benefits for when I turn 50 until I die.
When I get to SS age I will get whatever that is, in addition to my 401gay and another lump sum pension paid by my current employer.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 2:31 pm to mikie421
quote:
No I did not. What 20 year old is digging in to the details about WEP and pension offsets. Get real.
So this is the student loan debate again?
I didnt know what I was doing and it didnt pay off as well as I thought it would when I was 20.
The federal government needs to spend money to make me more more wealthy...
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