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Message
re: SCOTUS to hear gay Wedding cake case
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:28 pm to saint tiger225
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:28 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
Gay couple should have just went to another store.
This is the nub of the case right here /\
I would wager that they DID to a number of bakeries until they found one who refused to bake their cake.
They were shopping for a political nugget not a cake.
The bake said he does not discriminate against homos - he is willing to SELL them anything he creates. He is just not willing to CREATE something to their design.
I would be like suing Barbara Streisand if she refused to sing DIXIE at a Southern Baptist Convention.
I spent 15 years as a professional photographer in the Houston area in the mid-80s to 2000. This whole homosexual marriage thing was just beginning to be a public issue - and I made up my mind I would refuse to photograph any such 'marriage.' I would cite complete lack of experience in the rituals of such an event - with no interest in learning. I would not have been able to provide the kind of product I was known for. I would have gladly photographed them for a portrait - or sell them any kind of wares I had. But to participate in their ceremony???? nope nope nope.
I suspect the baker's decision was along similar lines.
0
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:33 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
It's like that sign that says "no shirt, no shoes, no service", because the store believes in not serving people who aren't properly dressed.
Pretty sure that's more of a health code thing.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:34 pm to Dale51
quote:
The whole argument of it being a public business and therefore they must not turn down anyone who wants their service
Again, citing my experience as a professional photographer, I have refused service to a couple because they were just too annoying to work with. I just told them "I don't think you would be happy with me" and ushered them out of my studio.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:35 pm to Godfather1
quote:
Pretty sure that's more of a health code thing.
Yeah... some people with no shirt on would hurt my eyes!
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:47 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Again, citing my experience as a professional photographer, I have refused service to a couple because they were just too annoying to work with. I just told them "I don't think you would be happy with me" and ushered them out of my studio.
We agree. You lucked out because they were not agenda driven people looking for a law suit.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:51 pm to Dale51
If the SCOTUS gets to make the decisions on stuff like this the game has already been lost.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:57 pm to Jjdoc
Personally I would bake a cake for a gay wedding, because gay marriage is not a big deal for me. Let them be miserable like the rest of us married people.
With that being said, homosexuality is not a protected class. Discrimination based on physical traits (gender, race, age, etc.) should be illegal. Discrimination based off personal choices are completely legal for private business.
With that being said, homosexuality is not a protected class. Discrimination based on physical traits (gender, race, age, etc.) should be illegal. Discrimination based off personal choices are completely legal for private business.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:48 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
Personally I would bake a cake for a gay wedding, because gay marriage is not a big deal for me. Let them be miserable like the rest of us married people.
In my experience as a wedding photographer, the bakery is responsible for transporting the cake to the facility, setting up the table, and participating in that portion of the reception.
If they just wanted to buy a cake from the baker's showcase that would be perfectly OK - but if they wanted all the amenities that go along with a professional bakery's service at the place of the reception, that is a different story.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:57 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
With that being said, homosexuality is not a protected class.
Actually, in Colorado at the time this case began, it is.
This is the Colorado public accommodation law that passed in 2008:
quote:
(1) As used in this part 6, "place of public accommodation" means any place of business engaged in any sales to the public and any place offering services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to the public, including but not limited to any business offering wholesale or retail sales to the public; any place to eat, drink, sleep, or rest, or any combination thereof; any sporting or recreational area and facility; any public transportation facility; a barber shop, bathhouse, swimming pool, bath, steam or massage parlor, gymnasium, or other establishment conducted to serve the health, appearance, or physical condition of a person; a campsite or trailer camp; a dispensary, clinic, hospital, convalescent home, or other institution for the sick, ailing, aged, or infirm; a mortuary, undertaking parlor, or cemetery; an educational institution; or any public building, park, arena, theater, hall, auditorium, museum, library, exhibit, or public facility of any kind whether indoor or outdoor. "Place of public accommodation" shall not include a church, synagogue, mosque, or other place that is principally used for religious purposes.
(2) (a) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry.
This comes down to a states rights issue.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:59 pm to Dale51
quote:
Actually, it's worse than that. The bakers agreed to sell them a stock wedding cake..no problem, but not custom designing one for them, because that would put their personal creative energy into it and by doing so sanction it, which is against their beliefs.
To me, you are forcing the baker to make a religious, artistic, and political statement that is against their beliefs. You are forcing them to participate in an expression that they disagree with as opposed to simply selling a product or service.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 2:21 pm to saint tiger225
quote:
Gay couple should have just went to another store. That's the beauty of our country.
Not in their world. I'm convinced groups like the gays and trannys do this shite on purpose to disrupt a seemingly existing hegemonic world. So why should companies be forced to accommodate you when you're busy pulling this kind of stunt? Walk your arse down the street to another gay friendly bakery.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 2:28 pm to saint tiger225
You realize you could use that same argument to support White Only bathrooms, private schools, businesses...
Anti-discrimination laws were necessary because it is a proven historical fact that people are not going to do the right thing on their own.
Anti-discrimination laws were necessary because it is a proven historical fact that people are not going to do the right thing on their own.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 2:52 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
You realize you could use that same argument to support White Only bathrooms, private schools, businesses...
this is fairly spot on. i'm always in fear of comparing this to the civil rights act because when you go down the rabbit hole, the civil rights act is a bit too far and liberty taking in some regards. i'm scared to say that because when you take the freedom to not serve cakes to gays all the way to it's conclusion... maybe a business should be able to say whites only?
i don't support that at all, of course, but I think you could make an argument for that using the same argument the baker has.
in a perfect society, a business could discriminate and we all get fired up on facebook and say "GFY, we'll never eat there again," and let the market take it's toll. if people support them for being racist, they'll continue on their merry way, if we as a society all agree to boycott them, so be it.
thus...
quote:
Anti-discrimination laws were necessary because it is a proven historical fact that people are not going to do the right thing on their own.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:02 pm to Dale51
quote:
The whole argument of it being a public business and therefore they must not turn down anyone who wants their service would, most likely, not apply if a person wanted the services of a law firm that specialized in environmental law that was fighting for organizations like the Sierra Club.
I liken that to going to a bakery and demanding they fix your plumbing at your house. "Sorry, we are bakers, not plumbers" "Not my problem, fix it".
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:09 pm to Jjdoc
quote:Would they have taken the case if the cake identified as straight?...
gay Wedding cake
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:18 pm to 3nOut
quote:
all the way to it's conclusion... maybe a business should be able to say whites only?
Or even a University set up a Blacks Only Safe Space or Blacks Only Student Union!
This is my shocked and horrified face:
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:31 pm to 3nOut
Well said.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:35 pm to Tigerdev
Do you think the bakery should be forced to bake the cake?
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:38 pm to Sidicous
So this is where we pretend that those things weren't put in place to counter the impacts of centuries of systematic abuse, oppression, and in many cases murder and assault?
Fun times
Fun times
Posted on 12/4/17 at 3:39 pm to Sidicous
I'm sure if it was a gay bakery they would have no problem baking Trump cakes.
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